Let he who is without "sin" cast the first stone..

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Randy @ Nov 14 2006, 01:00 PM) [snapback]348751[/snapback]</div>

As I am possibly the only preacher on this site, and having spent decades studing the Bible, I find the book to be deeply flawed.

To just accept a book because it says it's correct, is absurd. Stephen King wrote one of the best books on God and the Devil and the End times. Called THE STAND, it's a work of art. Yet, if he wrote in there that the book was the truth, and you should believe it because the books says it's the truth, you would laugh your nice person off.


The Bible is at best, a document that has stood a long time, through many trials and tribulations, and caused more discord then any other book ever written.


If there is any one point of the book that I believe is close to 70% accurate, it's the Gospels. And even there, some of that is based on second and third hand information. Frankly, if one wants to be Christ like, then one must be like He was. And that is something a lot of Christians fail to do, as evidenced in the way they often hate.

I have even received death threats due to my 'thinking outside the box' on this, from Christians. I have been barred from some churches, because I dare speak the truth.


It saddens me, that many hear the term 'Christian' and immediately think 'nut job'. But it does happen, and Christians need to work on correcting that. And one thing would be to wake up and smell the truth.

When I read the Bible, I do find myself getting closer to the Truth. And the Truth shall set you free.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(EricGo @ Nov 14 2006, 12:57 PM) [snapback]348804[/snapback]</div>

Can you give me an example?
Randy

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Randy @ Nov 14 2006, 02:48 PM) [snapback]348855[/snapback]</div>

What about the Gospel of Thomas? Of Mary? Of Peter? Why aren't they in the Bible? If the Bible is so perfect, why does it contradict itself, time, and time again? Why does God smite and kill in the old testament, but is all loving in the New Testament? Why do we even obey anything in the Old Testament, when it, a contract between man and God, was voided by the NEW Testament? The NEW Contract between man and God? Do you still sacrifice sheep for your sins? No? Then why tithe? BOTH are part of the old testament. Both are voided. Do you hate gays? Even though NOWHERE in the ENTIRE BIBLE does it say to hate gay people? Yet, JESUS spoke against DIVORCE. How many CHRISTIANS are divorced?

Hypocrisy.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Randy @ Nov 14 2006, 02:48 PM) [snapback]348855[/snapback]</div>

There can only be one explanation for your notion that the old testament has been unchanging through the millenia: you only speak one language.

I have read the old testament in both English and Hebrew, and /know/ it is not the case.

In case you are curious, the main translations along the way to English are hebrew, aramaic, greek, and latin. Now take into account cultural and religious bias of the translators, multiple meanings of words, inexact 1:1 vocabulary sets, and varying language profeciency of the translators, and common sense if not ability to read two of the languages should make the obvious, obvious.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(TJandGENESIS @ Nov 14 2006, 10:49 AM) [snapback]348858[/snapback]</div>

What's ironic is that "Christians" isn't even really a group, is it? If you believe the Old Testament is no longer valid, but some other Chrisitian believes otherwise, then you have a schism right there. That's why there are so many branches of Chrisianity now. Not only that, but even most of the people within one sect, or even one physical church membership, can't agree on even some of the most fundamental canon.

I agree with you but have come, it appears, to a different conclusion: I've seen way too much of Christianity and it's rampant hypocrisy for it to be a viable belief system for me.

Vince

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(VinceDee @ Nov 14 2006, 03:15 PM) [snapback]348880[/snapback]</div>

Which is why, and I have said this around these parts before, I consider myself a Follower of Christ. However, that does not mean I don't get saddened by Christians not acting Christ like.

 

I'm beginning to suspect that most 'Christians' (as, probably, followers of other religions) are of the tea-bag variety...that is, their faith only comes out when they're in hot water.

Further, I suspect that *really* being true to one's religion is *lots* more difficult than most would believe.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Pinto Girl @ Nov 14 2006, 03:28 PM) [snapback]348900[/snapback]</div>

You mean proclaiming that *everybody else* is going to hell is not enough ?!??

 

At lunch today, some guy was ranting with a loudspeaker about sinners go'in to hell unless they accept Jesus. Why do these people have the right to amplified rants on public streets when no one else does? Could an atheist set up a loudspeaker in public and harangue people about Richard Dawkins? Not for 5 minutes.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(TJandGENESIS @ Nov 14 2006, 03:22 PM) [snapback]348889[/snapback]</div>

I often wonder how much history educated christians like you actually know. E.g., are you aware that your words are heresy to the catholic church, and the Spanish Inquisition (supported by the vatican, naturally) was directed at people like you ?

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(EricGo @ Nov 14 2006, 02:53 PM) [snapback]348926[/snapback]</div>

Boy, from what I've been hearing recently, folks think that's supposed to win one an e-ticket ride straight through the VIP entrance of the Pearly Gates.

But, as I've said, anger is usually defensiveness turned back at others...and I'm going to do my best to be forgiving.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Randy @ Nov 14 2006, 02:50 PM) [snapback]348861[/snapback]</div>

The sun revolves around the Earth.

While you are at it, have DaronSpicher explain to you how the commandment "Do not Kill" does not mean what it seems to say, but *actually* means don't kill off EVERYTHING. Although it sometimes means killing everything not christian is good. And if you count the consonants, divided by the vowels, and multiplied by 1000, you will know how many innocents can be slaughtered to possibly protect one American.

Yup, the honest to god, unadorned, dogmatic truth.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(EricGo @ Nov 14 2006, 04:02 PM) [snapback]349005[/snapback]</div>

EricGo wrote:"The sun revolves around the Earth."
Can you give me scripture verse that says this? I did a search on "revolve" and "revolves" in the concondance and got no hits, mean it is not mentioned in the Bible.

And reference to the commandment it is actually "Do not Murder" not "Do not Kill".

Randy

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Randy @ Nov 14 2006, 12:00 PM) [snapback]348751[/snapback]</div>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Randy @ Nov 14 2006, 05:32 PM) [snapback]349088[/snapback]</div>

From http://www.thenazareneway.com/thou_shalt_not_kill.htm ...

Are you saying that the commandments are open to interpretation? If they are, then that means the bible is flawed. If yours says "don't murder" and mine says "don't kill", one of us is wrong.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Randy @ Nov 14 2006, 06:32 PM) [snapback]349088[/snapback]</div>

I had a feeling you were going to try this route. OK, find me the verse that says the Earth revolves around the sun. Feel free to quote the verses that 2000 years of christian doctrine relied on to prove that the sun revolves around the Earth. Remember, your original post only required a verse to 'affirm' science, which means the interpretation of a sentence's meaning. Yes ?

As for murder and killing, be so kind as to explain the difference to me.

 

You are stuck in a tautalogy. The bible is always right, so the bible is always right.

Tell me this: what makes you think //your// personal reading is the 'right' one ? Has god spoken to you ? Affirmed your interpretations ? Even so, I see on TV everyday that god has affirmed people of different christian sects; yet they disagree on what the bible means.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Proco @ Nov 14 2006, 06:45 PM) [snapback]349145[/snapback]</div>

No.
Question: Did King David kill thousands of people or did he not? The Bible is quite clear that he did and at least two times the Bible mentions that he asked God should I attack or smite them and God said "Yes" (I Samuel 23, 2 Samuel 5:18-25). If God intended the commandment to be "Thou shall not Kill" would'nt He have said "NO" rather than "Yes". On the other hand if God intended the commandment to be "Thou shall not Murder" then His telling King David "Yes" is in harmony with His commandment.
You might want to check out this website Please explain the Sixth commandment.
I also have the Defined King James Bible by D. A. Waite Jr. who's footnotes are "based upon sound English dictionaries and, where needed, the original Hebrew and Greek languages" and he defines "Kill" in Exodus 20:13 as "Hebrew murder".
Randy

 

I'm still wondering about how many angels can dance on the head of a pin...

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Randy @ Nov 14 2006, 08:43 PM) [snapback]349193[/snapback]</div>

As soon as god tells me, I'll tell you.

In the meantime, I'm still waiting for murder vs killing to be explained to me. In god's words, if you don't mind.

As for 'hebrew murder' -- that is a new one. Does that mean murder with one of the hebrew letters of the alphabet ? Or writing without vowels ? Or /any/ grammatical mistake ??