Why Did You Decide To Go PHEV over Full EV?

[QUOTE="BMW didn't put in the investment to get the best efficiency out of the range extender. The budget went elsewhere on the car. The Volt was 37 and 42 combined MPG..[/QUOTE]

Yes, "combined"; Pure gassers of the same size could easily achieved this at a much lower price point - dooming the Volt. The Volt was also buggy; many threads about people resetting their cars, rather than donating to the dealerships profit sharing fund.

BMW; money went into styling and marketing.

 

In the 2017 to 2019 model years, the only gasoline cars that got a combined MPG rating of 40 or better were hybrids.
https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/PowerSearch.do?action=PowerSearch&year1=2017&year2=2019&minmsrpsel=0&maxmsrpsel=0&city=0&highway=0&combined=40&cbftreggasoline=Regular+Gasoline&cbftmidgasoline=Midgrade+Gasoline&cbftprmgasoline=Premium+Gasoline&YearSel=2017-2019&MakeSel=&MarClassSel=&FuelTypeSel=Regular+Gasoline%2C+Midgrade+Gasoline%2C+Premium+Gasoline&VehTypeSel=&TranySel=&DriveTypeSel=&CylindersSel=&MpgSel=0400&sortBy=Comb&Units=&url=SearchServlet&opt=new&minmsrp=0&maxmsrp=0&minmpg=0&maxmpg=0&sCharge=&tCharge=&startstop=&cylDeact=&rowLimit=50
The only pure gasser to match the gen1 Volt was the iQ. Some others got close, for less, but I don't think they'd be much better in terms of reliability. The Yaris with automatic was rated 32mpg combined.

The i3's design budget went into the carbon fiber body and aluminum frame. Toyota formed a partnership with BMW for their CF expertise.

 

Range Anxiety — can't beat EPA Total range of 640 miles. I'm hitting 400 mile range with a quarter tank of gas left @ 80-90 mph (CA interstate 5). EV range gets destroyed at high speeds.

Also I'm very particular to buy cars only Made in Japan.

 

I didn’t own my 2013 Volt because of fuel economy, though it wasn’t bad in the summer months.

I owned it because nearly all my weekday trips were EV powered and it was comfortable when I went on a 3000-4000 mile trip west.

the Volt was very reliable (no issues) until I got in a wreck

 

I sold my 2013-III for good coin, and took advantage of the Federal and Provincial rebates on my new Prime. Just made the first long highway run: 1320 miles with one overnight. Only burned 24 gallons of gas. The 2013 took more than 30 for the same trip. Fuel refills take <5 min. Running 75-85 MPH all the way. If I had a BEV (which would be a more expensive vehicle) I'd have to FULLY recharge at least once to make a 700 mile day, and probably would have trouble even coming close, running those speeds. Really, a no-brainer for my needs and budget.

 

DIY right to repair. That is why I choose to buy a PHV over an EV.

I don't have the equipment to lift a car battery the size of the car down. But in a PHV, I could possible be able to service and repair the battery myself.

I can also service my vehicle's oil easily. Change spark plugs, change filters, change the fluids.

Besides getting great mileage. (Averaging 80 MPG even with bad AERO mods) I just like being able to fix my own car problems. I can't work on electrical and parts sound like they will be hard to come by.

So two reasons.

1. Right to repair. And getting access to Toyota parts/service manuals are too EASY. (techinfo.toyota.com)
2. Decent range and MPG.

 

Guess you have an engine hoist then?

You could probably get an under cabin battery down with readily available jacks and dollies.
Even though smaller, I can see a PHEV battery inside the cabin or cargo area being difficult moving within the confines.

The issue of DIY is some of the reason I've taken an BEV brand off my list, but BEVs have less to break compared to a car with an engine. There is also less maintenance items, though going through tires faster is a concern.

Of course, you could just enjoy doing that work on an engined car. I totally get that.

 

nope! but I have a forklift at the shop that I could use. =D

Dollies and multiple floor jacks just sound like a safety issue all around. And I don't have a huge flat garage to maneuver all of that. My garage slopes down the second you step out of the garage door. I don't trust myself jacking up or down a large battery either. Just because you need to lift it up somewhat evenly to even put it back in the car !

That said I do think that BEVs have a future. Just I don't see myself driving one until costs get really prohibitive for even the Prime !

Definitely BEV's main advantage is fuel efficiency and maintenance. Cost .... I am not certain on that one yet with the way gas prices have been going lately....

 

Here's Pt 1 of a great YT series that explains battery removal and disassembly. I imagine we should see improved tech battery replacements for this Toyota in the next five years. I'd love to have even an extra KWH or two!

 

I didn't think it would be easy. Just easier on my back than working on a Prime's pack.

When was the last time you had to remove an engine, or transmission? That was my point. Having to drop the battery pack isn't likely for most BEVs in their lifetimes. Toyota is putting a 10 year warranty on their BEV packs for them to not lose more than 10% capacity in that time. From the data out there, the majority of Teslas wouldn't be getting a replacement pack under such a warranty.

BEVs in Europe were predicted to reach parity in total costs with ICE cars a few years ago. Before the the pandemic and current economy.

 

1. There’s no place to plug in my car at where I live. There is at work though.
2. Pure electric cars that get 500+ mile range are still way too expensive and way too slow to recharge.

 

2. 99.99% of people don't need an EV with that much range. If you do, BEVs are not for you. Most people drive less than 50 miles a day. For them, anything between 150-300 mile capacity will do if they have Level 2 charging at home or work. BEVs make good secondary cars or primary cars if you can live with longer "refueling" times.

 

Sorry I read that as BEV not suitable if you use your car as a leisure vehicle and go somewhere with it and only useful as a second car .

Use your other one for the above.. still not a fan until the BEV is as flexible as an ICE

 

The majority of households in the US have more than one car. Just having one of them be a BEV will greatly reduce petroleum useage.

 

For you, this may be the case.
For me, a BEV is more flexible than an ICE.
And as for usefulness, our family has been a 2 BEV family for 9 years. Not once have we canceled or changed any plans, nor missed appointments.
We have taken cross country trips as well as many regional ones. For us, a BEV is more than suitable.

 

For me the primes range is adequate, it will cover the daily needs. I wouldn’t go full EV to the charger situation where I live. In my town there is 2 chargers, on a 4 hour commute to the city there’s probably half a dozen chargers on the way. To go to the city it’s a 400km drive, most EV’s will need a charge on the way or as soon as you get there. The less range in winter months would make that worse.

 

I agree that BEVs make good secondary cars part. But for us, with current charging infrastructure and BEV model choices available, a BEV can not be the only car.

I have read in so many places that "most people drive less than 50 miles a day argument for adequate EV range of current BEV. But what this argument fails to mention is that even if an average car owner drives fewer than 50 miles daily more than 90% of the time, there are that ~10% that people drive longer than 50 miles. And that distance can get quite long when compared to the total distance of daily drives. In my case, for the last ~5 years, 95% of the time I drove less than 100 miles/day. The remaining 5% represents days when I had to drive further than 100 miles. When I tallied the miles driven for both less than 100 miles trips and more than 100 miles trips. Even though more than 100 miles trips were only 5% of the time, the total miles driven was ~30% of entier miles put on the car. If a BEV can not be driven for that 30%, that would have to be driven by a non-BEV car. For our case, that would result in an increase in the use of the second non-BEV car and an overall increase in gas usage.

That is only if a BEV is replacing an inefficient gasser. If a BEV replaces an already fuel-efficient car like a PP, at least for our use cases, my calculation estimated a slight increase in annual petroleum usage. This is due to the fact that the longer than 100 miles trips I make (~5%) must be driven on a non-BEV.

 

Exactly how often do you think BEV's have had their battery packs replaced?

I'm glad you see some of the advantages to owning a BEV!
Remember that last time you were under the car doing an oil change and then disposing of the waste?
I don't....

Until you get one, you'll have to live with a Gen 3 or 4 Prius (regardless if it's a HV or PHEV).
Do you know that the Gen 4 has the exact same head gasket design as the Gen 3?
And regardless if you change the engine coolant once a year and clean your EGR system once a year,
you may be having head gasket issues around the 250k mile range.
But then you can fix that in your garage, right?

I had a '11 Prius level 5 with ATP. Loved it. Then the head gasket failed at ~230k miles.
Not any more. Our two cars no longer have head gaskets!

 

Is this because there is no DCFC network in your traveling area?
Have you checked recently?
New DCFC stations are being installed daily!
And Tesla claims to be adding CCS connectors at their Superchargers,,, someday.... That's what "Elon says"....

 

If you no longer have your 2011 Prius shouldn’t you change your profile to “other” ?
Btw the head gasket on my Capri failed at 90,000 significantly less than 250,000, go figure