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HEELP! "Stuck" in S Texas :(

Discussion in 'Gen 3 Prius Care, Maintenance & Troubleshooting' started by MrPete, May 31, 2022.

  1. MrPete

    MrPete Active Member

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    See below for my URGENT question.

    We are 1400 miles into our travel adventure with newly cleaned ip Gen3. New plugs, clean IM, clean EGR, cooler, new PCV.

    Got great gas mileage on the way down: almost 50mpg until we hit serious A/C Temps (100+ mostly).

    On arrival at our first main stopping point (six nights along the LRGV) I noted that we used 3 quarts of oil in 1200 miles. I attribute that to the heat. No idea why, but it is consistent and extreme (unless it is altitude?)

    Mild/cold CO weather: oil usage but over 1k miles per quart. HOT: oil just pours through.

    OCC has a few teaspoons.

    NOW AN EMERGENCY

    I am parked. Every time the ICE engine fires up, it knocks/stumbles. Scary loud.

    Happened once an hour ago. Nothing before that other than occasional roughness. No codes until now (I will check in a sec)

    Could it be due to overheating? (Eg sitting in the sun, letting the engine run as needed to keep interior cool, but not actually going anywhere)?

    Other ideas?
     
  2. MrPete

    MrPete Active Member

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    No codes.
     
  3. rjparker

    rjparker Tu Humilde Sirviente

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    Does not sound good. Coolant level ok? Where are you at?
     
  4. Georgina Rudkus

    Georgina Rudkus Senior Member

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    How many miles on the car?
     
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  5. MrPete

    MrPete Active Member

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    200k. Coolant fine.
    Mussion TX (natl butterfly center)

    About to try to leave...
     
  6. PriusCamper

    PriusCamper Senior Member

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    You need to replace the piston rings... It's a known problem.
     
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  7. rjparker

    rjparker Tu Humilde Sirviente

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    Mission Texas. If you need an engine consider San Antonio, four hours north. You should be getting typical gas mileage as long as you stay around 65 mph. The heat and sea level altitude are not the issue. A solid engine will not burn three quarts in 1200 miles. The start up rattles are serious.
     
    #7 rjparker, May 31, 2022
    Last edited: May 31, 2022
  8. Georgina Rudkus

    Georgina Rudkus Senior Member

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    Sounds like the beginning of a head gasket failure.
     
  9. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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  10. MrPete

    MrPete Active Member

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    Whew. 'Twas scary but got her going. Knock went away in less than half a second. Smooooth running the rest of the day. No more sitting and idling for a/c.

    Questions:

    AFAIK there are two separate issues:

    1) Oil use / pistons / rings (fixed in 2015)
    2) PCR / EGR / ??? Oil and potentially water reinjected into intake leading to knock and HG blowout if not throwing a rod.

    Are these actually related?

    Does passing 110k miles and seeing oil use spike indicate a blown HG?

    Is it hopeless to change HG on a 2010-14 engine?
     
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  11. 2010moneypit?

    2010moneypit? Active Member

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    Like others have said Sounds like the begging of a head gasket failure.

    Try removing the radiator cap to relieve the pressure when you park it. This may help with the seeping head gasket. This needs to be done with extreme caution and at your own risk. It is a pressurized container with hot coolant and you can get burned.

    I have done this before and it helped. When I did it I carefully used a towel and just turned the cap a little. If I was not careful I would get burned with the stem. So be careful and do this at your own risk!
     
    #11 2010moneypit?, May 31, 2022
    Last edited: May 31, 2022
  12. CR94

    CR94 Senior Member

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    Congratulations! What did you do that "got her going," vs. the previous scary situation?

    I gather the main connection between oil guzzling and the EGR and gasket issues is that burning oil adds to the soot that clogs the EGR path, causing gasket failure---maybe.

    I have yet to see a proven clear explanation of the rough starts associated with running the engine very briefly, even back when engines apparently were too young to have head gasket or EGR clogging issues.
     
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  13. rjparker

    rjparker Tu Humilde Sirviente

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    An engine that is not burning a quart every 400 miles combined with an early head gasket change works for many people. On your engine the cylinders must be scored. A replacement engine would be one solution, however the odds are you would get a 2010-14 engine because Toyota built far more of those years. A rebuild of an engine pre-head gasket failure would be best for long term reliability.

    I believe most gen3 head gasket problems are bypasses of the gasket caused by warped surfaces and excessive carbon buildup far beyond an egr clogging up. The smoking gun are the items that were redesigned in gen4 including enhanced cylinder temperature management.

    However your problem now is you are far from home.

    gen4
    Prius gen4 cylinder coolant.jpg
     
    #13 rjparker, May 31, 2022
    Last edited: May 31, 2022
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  14. JC91006

    JC91006 Senior Member

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    I don't think you'll be breaking down anytime soon. Just drive it like you stole it. The rattle may be a 1 time occurrence. My 2010 burns a lot of oil at highway speeds, but it's not nearly as bad as 1 quart every 400 miles like yours. Burning oil won't make you break down unless you run it dry. Did it always burn this much oil or do you have a leak somewhere?

    I think you should just monitor the oil burning and add as needed, address any issues once you get home.
     
  15. Mr. F

    Mr. F Active Member

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    I've put a little over 11,000 miles on mine after having replaced the head gasket last year. It was never burning oil, so I just put the original pistons and rings back in. I do not think replacing the HG is hopeless.
     
  16. jzchen

    jzchen Newbie!

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    Does the coolant and oil look good? No milkshake look? You're burning too much oil your catalytic converter may be damaged.

    I know it's not convention here, but having an engine swap or head gasket job during a trip isn't something I'd want to deal with, especially if I'm having trouble AND not in the near vicinity of a good highly reliable shop.

    Add a stop leak to oil and coolant following instructions carefully. Then monitor levels. Hopefully you can get home without significant more drama....

    REVVL V+ 5G ?
     
  17. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

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    I believe it's the failed head gasket that leads to liquid (coolant) getting into the combustion chamber. And long unaddressed clogging of EGR system that leads to failing head gasket.

    Also appreciate that's all semantics in your current situation. With failures of both the block and the head gasket, engine swap is the simplest course.
     
  18. MrPete

    MrPete Active Member

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    Answering some questions, and some new data for your expert interpretations :)
    • Remember, the coolant level is rock solid. No loss at all. (So, what would releasing pressure do?)
    • Coolant is clean. Not muddy at all. Oil is darker than brand new after 1500 miles now, but looks good
    • No Codes. None at all.
    • What I did: prepped to leave, prayed, and took off out of the parking lot (keeping engine revved for the first several minutes). It purred like a kitty all the way back to our hotel, and ran fine this morning (20 mile drive in only 80+ weather) :-D
    Here's new data: short clips from my brand new dual-lens endoscope, taken last week while replacing the spark plugs and valve cover gaskets. (Boy is it hard to keep directions straight when doing this!)
    In all cases: cylinder head/walls to the left, valves to the right. I think I got a full 360 on the Cyl 2 walls (and valves?) -- Cyl 2 was what I shot last. :)

    I've never looked at something like this before. To me it appears:
    • the valve tops have quite a bit of carbon, and
    • some cylinders seem incredibly wet with oil and carbon
    • I can see what seems to be head gasket or something kinda thick and dark especially on Cyl 1
    Questions up front:
    • Is this good/bad/indifferent?
    • Is there anything truly useful I can do to clean this up? I've seen a lot of SeaFoam talk here and elsewhere as well as Techron. Maybe both in cyl heads and in oil, after we get home? Or don't bother...
    • I assume a leakdown test would help, or am I past that?
    Cyl 1


    Cyl 2

    Cyl 3

    Cyl 4
     
    #18 MrPete, Jun 1, 2022
    Last edited: Jun 1, 2022
  19. Georgina Rudkus

    Georgina Rudkus Senior Member

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    As a reference, check out this video from "The Car Care Nut."

     
  20. rjparker

    rjparker Tu Humilde Sirviente

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    The best cylinder to cylinder shots are of the pistons. With coolant steam cleaning, one is typically much cleaner than the rest.

    These problems don't fix themselves or just go away. It is very common that the coolant does not drop quickly and the severe broken rod like rattling is occasional. Too many put it off which leads to a replacement engine. In your situation, you know the excessive oil consumption and occasional rattling has been going on for some period of time based on your earlier posts. The occasional part seems to blow people's minds, especially those who have not seen it before.

    Cooling system sealants have worked as temporary remedies but have the potential to clog the radiator and heater core down the road. Both literally and figuratively. I think the old school drain and multi flush versions are better than the newer direct add sealers but in your situation the direct add may be more expedient. I think I would get one and carry a couple gallons of distilled water. If you can get home without using it, do so. Consider signing up for AAA with a long distance towing option if you don't have something similar now. Most tow programs will only take you to the nearest decent shop.
     
    #20 rjparker, Jun 1, 2022
    Last edited: Jun 1, 2022
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