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How I Recondition Cells

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Main Forum' started by tracy ing, Jun 19, 2022.

  1. tracy ing

    tracy ing Active Member

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    I am also known as Jack Skellington

     
    #201 tracy ing, Aug 5, 2022
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  2. tracy ing

    tracy ing Active Member

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    This third test helps in making the final module selections. Using this approach reduces data noise and only three ended up not meeting the grade for this special pack. These three would make it into any Prius pack I made, they are as good as any I have used in the past. They don't cut it for this pack though.

    final.jpg
     
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  3. tracy ing

    tracy ing Active Member

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    On number 8, the worst one, I worked the low end again, this time, after draining it repeatedly to 6 volts with less and less amps, I hammered it with 13 amps for 4 minutes then drained it down to 6 volts about 8 more times then nailed it again, charged it up to eoc, drained it, then did the 6.5 amp for 6.5 Ah and then drained it to 6 volts at 6.5 amps.
    Went up from 5.21 Ah and 80% to 5.8 Ah and 89%, so number 8 is back in the mix.
     
  4. JohnPrius3005

    JohnPrius3005 Active Member

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    Is number 8 the module you "watered"?
    Do you have any indication of whether, after you run this many cycles of reconditioning (and it's pretty impressive that you were able to get those numbers up so well) that the module will "stay strong" in actual use, or revert rapidly to being bad? This seems to be one of the keys - does the reconditioning, whether it takes multiple iterations or not, "last"?
     
  5. tracy ing

    tracy ing Active Member

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    No, the water module is about to become the KOH module soon, it is experimental

    These module are all ones I have used over and over, they have been in 3 cars so far, how long will it last ?
    We will see

    P.S. The water module was only placed in the pack last week so I had some method to clamp it while charging, it has been removed
     
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  6. JohnPrius3005

    JohnPrius3005 Active Member

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    You've clearly got a very sound reconditioning process, and it's far removed from taking a shot in the dark, and is I'd say perhaps the best process out there.

    Once you have reconditioned an entire pack, and taken out the "bad" modules (which maybe now would no longer be called "bad" if they went through this new set of steps) how long on average, roughly, before you get an indication that you need to do another round of reconditioning?

    From your 3 cars obviously your process works and the modules can be repeatedly reconditioned, and apparently do not degrade to useless. This is solid info. :)
     
  7. tracy ing

    tracy ing Active Member

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    I didn't want to clutter up someone else's thread with a non-sequitor

    I dug back in my other laptop and found this, my first toy was not a charger it was the CBA unit, to discharge and monitor charge
    My charger was vector car battery charger, it works just fine, using the cba, and/or a meter, I could see end of charge and stop the charger.

    I know this is using the car charger because I didnt own any other charger in May 2015 AND in the text data file EOC is detected in seconds not minutes, the human can detect far faster than any charger designed to do so.

    Charger was a VECTOR 12 volt car battery charger

    <S T="2696" V="8.845" C="0" Tp="999" />
    <S T="2697" V="8.844" C="0" Tp="999" />
    <S T="2698" V="8.845" C="0" Tp="999" />
    <S T="2699" V="8.843" C="0" Tp="999" />
    <S T="2700" V="8.844" C="0" Tp="999" />
    <S T="2701" V="8.846" C="0" Tp="999" />
    <S T="2702" V="8.794" C="0" Tp="999" /> <<<END OF CHARGE
    <S T="2703" V="8.77" C="0" Tp="999" />
    <S T="2704" V="8.763" C="0" Tp="999" />
    <S T="2705" V="8.759" C="0" Tp="999" />
    <S T="2706" V="8.751" C="0" Tp="999" />
    <S T="2707" V="8.749" C="0" Tp="999" /> <<HUMAN PULLS PLUG SECONDS LATER
    </Samples>
    <CellSamples />

    Also, that DIP in the begining ?
    Thats what the VECTOR does each time

    a12.jpg

    bd2.jpg
    bd.jpg
     
    #207 tracy ing, Aug 7, 2022
    Last edited: Aug 7, 2022
  8. tracy ing

    tracy ing Active Member

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    Well, lol, let me put it this way, I haven't had to go back on any yet, the pack I am working on now for my insight, was THROWN together with little thought as it was a proof of concept and went a lot longer than I ever expected it to go.

    The last one I did was the other day, that 2008 prius we bought in june, it is working so far lol

    The only one I have around here that I did this same work to, is my silver 2005 sitting outside. I bought that specifically due to a bad battery pack and hauled it back from new jersey cause they sold it for nothing.

    When I got the car it had 142,218 miles. January 2015.
    The pack is a mix of the original and replacement cells and they were all charged using the vector charger.
    The car today has 280,593 so that pack now has 138,375 miles on it

    I did a test just yesterday for another reason but looked at the cells, they are all good and close to each other and the resistance in techstream is 23 and 24
     
    #208 tracy ing, Aug 7, 2022
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  9. tracy ing

    tracy ing Active Member

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    Back then, I worked one module at a time, charge it up 6 amps until I saw end of charge with a meter, then use the CBA to take it down to 6 volts at 6 amps and read the capacity, repeat it over and over until it got no better, 3 or 4 times, if it had more than 5 Ah, it made it into the battery pack.

    This test was yesterday, idling with AC on letting engine turn on and off

    LOL yeah I am pretty sure I know what I am doing, I started with a car battery charger, and it worked, as evidenced here

    P.S. Before the CBA, I used the car charger, a meter, and the clock on my laptop to figure out how long they discharged, and that was the AH for the module. That would have been a black 2005 my daughter got for 500 bucks and i had to figure all of this stuff out. (actually, she paid a thousand and i loaned her 500, so she owes me 500 bucks still, and THATS why i post here, just made 500 bucks)

     
    #209 tracy ing, Aug 7, 2022
    Last edited: Aug 7, 2022
  10. JohnPrius3005

    JohnPrius3005 Active Member

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    Awesome, totally freaking awesome! I kinda got the idea you knew what you were doing at the start of this thread. Getting 140k miles out of a reconditioned pack proves it as far as I’m concerned. There is absolutely no reason for me to do anything but copy your methodology as closely as I can to recondition my HV modules. Too bad there are no longer any “almost free because of dead HVbat” Priuses. I’d buy every one I could get my hands on knowing what I’ve learned from you. You’re the man, Tracy, you’re the friggin’ man! Genius, and it works!! I’d start a business with you in a second!
    And what really makes you cool is you don’t sit on this as a secret! Thanks man, really, thanks!!
     
  11. tracy ing

    tracy ing Active Member

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    Well, they are priced down not because of battery but stolen cats now lol, that's how we got he 2008 and it was CLEAN and drives like new. Depends on where you are, around here DC METRO you can still find deals on a Prius. I still stick with gen 2, new parts are plenty and cheap.

    The big takeaway from this entire thread is, just charge them up and down, until they get as good as they are gonna get, towards end of charge, consider lowering the amps to prevent gassing / swelling /heat. If they have over 5 Ah probably good to go.

    And, learned from this thread, before you waste time, put an Ah in it, discharge it to 6 volts, then watch the voltages for 4 minutes, if they go beyond 7.2 volts, that module may be trouble. Just look at my sheets above
     
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  12. tracy ing

    tracy ing Active Member

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    So I repeated the 8 process on module 7, it is now back in the pack at 5.6 AH when charged to 90% SOC and 86% charge efficiency beating the 84% minimum for pack inclusion.
     
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  13. tracy ing

    tracy ing Active Member

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    I swear man, some people just dont get it, you can charge these and other batteries with all kinds of things, chargers power supplies other batteries, you could use jumper cables on a truck battery and TAP a charge into these batteries if you wanted to. I have done it with other batteries in a pinch even AAA batteries in the field. You could use wire and a magnet if you wanted to.

    I am the guy banned from gilligans island because with me, there was no tv series lol
     
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  14. JohnPrius3005

    JohnPrius3005 Active Member

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    Haha. Some people don't get a lot of things. Therein lies opportunity ;-)
     
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  15. tracy ing

    tracy ing Active Member

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    amen
     
  16. tracy ing

    tracy ing Active Member

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    you could use jumper cables on a truck battery and TAP a charge into these batteries if you wanted to.

    LOL I SHOULD TRY THAT, on a bad battery see if it alters is charge discharge profile

    Wire the positive side of a truck battery to the pos

    Take the negative to an insulated copper post, attach a swirling copper insulated tab to a variable speed drill, have it spin and SLAP the voltage in with a CHARGING SURGE, i can adjust the RATE with the speed of the drill or number of spinny copper flappers.

    I could use a chattering relay, but the visual of the spinny thingy would get more hits on youtube lol

    oh yeah i need to build this
     
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  17. JohnPrius3005

    JohnPrius3005 Active Member

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    Fun stuff ;-)
     
  18. tracy ing

    tracy ing Active Member

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    Status as of this morning, all 20 cells may end up in the pack, using the tempanerd i can watch the temps on each module to see if those with higher resistance play badly, or not.

    Why I am only going to 90% SOC for all subsequent tests on these modules, they previously have proven their max capacity from 100% soc, there is no reason to keep subjecting them to the extreme stresses of that last 10% when the information can be gathered from a 90% soc down to 6 volts. now.jpg
     
  19. JohnPrius3005

    JohnPrius3005 Active Member

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    Amazing! I'm curious if any of the "big reconditioners" and/or sellers of "reconditioned" batteries can boast of 140k miles on any of their "reconditioned" batteries. I'd bet they don't go to the lengths you do, and quite likely don't have the experience or understanding of how effective your process is. With this you have pretty much "solved" the "Prius will need a new $3000+ battery" dilemma many Prius owners and potential owners fear. Cool stuff.
     
  20. tracy ing

    tracy ing Active Member

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    I have a feeling that there arent going to be anymore nimh prius modules produced at panasonic. So the problem of the 3,000 dollar dealer pack may not be an issue.