Any guesses welcomed

OK, if everyone is through watching my beef jiggle, back to the topic...

UPDATE: I got the car in Denver back home - beautiful. It's #735 and in amazing shape. In Denver, I was able to bolt the new cheapo cat onto the exhaust manifold. It's not easy to get the second spring bolt started - really gotta exert some push to compress that spring enough to catch a thread. Then, I just shoved a universal bullet muffler on the end of it, and dang if it wasn't the wrong size - 2" OD vs 1 7/8" - but a found some pieces of sheet metal on the ground that I formed into a shim and got it together with a U-clamp.

It wasn't that quiet, but I drove it back to Houston just fine, with the CEL for the ox sensor and vacuum line. Fixed those two items and got a muffler shop to weld the exhaust up using the bullet muffler as my new resonator, cutting off the flange of the rear exhaust section, bending a new pipe from the rear of the bullet over to that last section, and welding everything up. Now, I won't be able to remove the exhaust without cutting it apart again. It's one solid pipe from the manifold to the rear tailpipe.

But it's quiet! And runs great. I'm amazed how clean the interior is - 200k miles and none of the chrome worn off the dash buttons, the steering wheel looks new, the seats are perfect. Drives real tight - shocks and struts great. AC cold. However, twice since I got it fixed, first start of the day triggered an orange triangle and exclamation car. Both times, I cleared the codes by pulling the battery fuse, and it never came back over days/hundreds of miles driving.

First time, I checked the battery - I still have a second battery in the trunk and jumper cables from it to the original that's still connected - one of the jumper cables was off. Connected it back, plugged in the fuse, and didn't come back for days. Next time, cables still connected, but after clearing codes, never has come back now. But...

So, I gave that one to my son and picked up the one from ATL that I'd left at his house. He replaced the ox sensor and did the vacuum hack. It runs great now - no CELs, no seeming injector issues/rattling at low RPM. Except, it still throws the triangle and exclamation car whenever you re-start it after previous driving. Same scenario as car one - unplug the battery, clear the codes, and it drives fine. Except with this car, it comes back whenever you turn the car off and restart, except when you clear the codes right before restarting.

If I start the car without clearing the codes, and just let it idle, it doesn't seem to throw the code (may need to wait longer than 5mins). But, when I put it in gear to drive, the code immediately triggers.

So, it sounds similar to the other car, and both appear to have had the same original problem - stolen cats - as what kept them from driving (i.e., probably driving fine until cat stolen, but you never know with auction cars). And both sat in an auction yard for a few months.

No, I haven't pulled codes yet - in the middle of all this I've been repairing my dad's house in this heat and am beat right now. It still feels like a 12v battery issue. I'm wondering whether the original batteries that are still in the cars and wouldn't start the cars at the auction, are soooo dead that they're triggering the triangle even though I have the good batteries jumper to them.

As y'all know, getting batteries that fit this car is pricey - special terminals, strange mounting locations, non-vapor. I've been using Walmart lawnmower batteries for a while with good price/value luck. But, to install them correctly is a pain; they have different terminal types. But, I've been able to distort the cars terminal connector to fit; just gotta spend the time to do that now that I'm home and eliminate it as the issue.

One other thing though - the ATL car started triggering the Brake and ABS dash lights sometimes when I come to a stop. It goes out after maybe 5-10 seconds, but not seemingly from anything I'm doing in jiggling (tribute to beefieboy) the parking brake, shift lever, pumping the pedal, etc. The brakes seem to work fine though, and my son said it had plenty of fluid, but I'll check again. Anyone ever have that issue?

 

Thanks for trying, RJ. This is the Gen1 forum, so I assumed everyone would understand that I'm talking about Gen1s. Honestly, Gen1s are all I'm interested in - I don't like the body styles of any of the other Gens - so yeah, all the dozen or so Prii I've owned have been Gen1s.

Not sure why it matters where everyone lives, except that we're all far enough apart that I can't walk outside and see the car to answer questions here or provide data if it's in another city. I'm in Houston with 4 of the Prii; my son has one in Jarrell, just north of Austin, I have another in storage in Dallas, and my dad is in Corpus Christi, but none of the cars are, although I drove the CO there last week and then to Aus to swap with my son.

The ATL car, now here in Houston with me, doesn't seem to have drained the 12v lawnmower battery (LMB) I placed in the trunk and jumpered to the original, dead battery (OB) still installed in the car. Not sure that means the car is charging it though, through the OB and across the jumper cables to that LMB. But, it keeps driving fine (after resetting the codes each restart) for over a thousand miles now (ATL to Aus to Hou).

The car doesn't start without the LMB attached (trunk light very dim). Soon as I attach the jumper cables (after plugging battery fuse back in), the trunk light brightens to normal and the car starts and runs normal. I haven't checked either battery's voltage, but as long as the LMB is attached, the trunk light stays bright and the car starts and drives normal after resetting codes...so far.

So, is the OB not good enough to start, but once started with a boost from the LMB, it's able to run everything just fine? IDK, I've not disconnected the LMB after starting to see. If so, would that allow the LMB to not use its charge, such that even though it's not being recharged (as you propose), it's still able to boost the OB each time to start (albeit it will eventually run out of charge)?

It seems unlikely, but IDK how the charging system works, so I'll check that. I'm assuming that since the LMB seems to be retaining its charge (again, IDK, but over a thousand miles driven suggests so), that the car must be sending voltage back to it all the way through the jumper cables. SYK, I've had this same set up in the Prius I've been driving the last year (that allows me to not mangle the car's cables permanently to adapt to the LMBs), and that LMB has never run dead. Surprisingly, during all this I inadvertently left that car's LMB disconnected at one point as I borrowed the jumper cables, and now the old battery seems to run it again - like it came back to life after, or in fact, was never actually bad.

Anyway, my experience suggests that 12v will get to the LMBs and keep them charged, and I'm assuming the ATL car is doing that now.

Instead, I think the problem is related to the way the triangle doesn't go off (after clearing codes and restarting) until I put it in gear. I'll have to find the old thread here (or was it somewhere else online) that describes how to test whether a triangle (I think tied to the BATT symbol) is in the battery, inverter, or, I forget, somewhere else depending on when the triangle triggers. You start with the key on, wait 5 mins for a triangle trigger. If so, it's the hybrid battery, IIRC. If not, start the car but leave in Park, IIRC, and wait 5 mins again. Finally, put it in gear. At the time, that pinpointed a problem in another of my cars and I found a loose connector right where it suggested. It kinda sounds like this car could be similar - that the problem can be indicated by the triangle not appearing until it's in gear.

But, I also wondered whether the OB being dead could, perhaps, prevent the car's ECU from seeing enough voltage, not seeing the LMB behind the OB. Never done it on my other car though.

The answer is probably, knowing my luck, that the car has a major problem (bad inverter?). The previous owner could have learned of the problem and sabotaged the car for insurance fraud. I'm always suspicious of these cats being stolen since it's so hard to get to those manifold bolts and few thieves have the desire or come prepared to unbolt cats. This one also had the dent in the back that I thought was the reason it was at auction, but after seeing it up close, that dent is in the exact spot where it was dented, and bondo'd, once before - what are the chances of that?

I know, I know, read the codes. Been catching up on other tasks since I got back.

As for the CO car. not sure why you think it has blown head gaskets. I've driven it almost 2000 miles (Den-Hou-Corpus-Aus) and it's not overheated or smoked or anything I'd associate with gaskets. The radiator was full to the top when I checked it.

It drives normal in every way, for hundreds of miles at a time, through multiple restarts, except twice. Days apart, Triangle at start up. Once when the LMB set up was accidentally disconnected. Cleared and doesn't come back for days. IDK, but checking the codes seems like the next step. I think it's just that 12v battery.

Thanks for helping.

 

Sure, RJ, sorry to frustrate you. Honestly, this was always a strange forum compared to others I participate on. For a car forum, it's always lacked the typical "mechanic" guys that are on most forums. Instead, it's always had more nerdy IT types. And you see it in the conversations. Mechanics love mystery problems. They talk about them for hours. IT techs? Not so much, until...

I was a sw salesman for many years and had to deal with a lot of IT techs. It was always the same - my tech had to have the "who has the biggest stick" battle with their tech, and once that pecking order is established, me and the exec could go do the deal. I'll just concede and reside happily at the bottom of the PriusChat pecking order.

I compare this forum to the Ford diesel forums I participate on. Those are mechanics, real dirt-under-the-fingernails types. Sure, you need to read codes on those trucks too, but they're gungho about just talking about problems if the OP doesn't have codes yet. Lots of guys just throw problems out for something to chat about. It's a real community.

This forum used to be better. There were some mechanics here, and guys figuring stuff out. I guess there just aren't enough of these cars left. Yeah, there are a lot more of those trucks out there.

So, anyway, all of y'all don't have to keep telling me to go get codes. I know that. And, I know that limits what you can tell me for sure. That's OK, I don't care. If you don't want to just talk about it, venture guesses, recall similar stories you may have or heard, that's fine too, it doesn't bother me. I'll get all these cars fixed either way. However, if anyone wants to waste their breath telling me that over and over, that's fine too. Whatever floats your boat. I'm easy. You can even call me stupid, and a waste of time. I've been called worse; it doesn't bother me.

Anyway, my Techstream PC is dead and I don't feel like screwing with it. I used TorquePro but it's Toyota gauges start with Gen2, so there may be some differences. However, it showed me a P3077 code, which sure makes a lot of sense. Recall that driving back from ATL, this car flashed the turtle icon for a little while, which can mean the battery temp is too high.

And, that would explain why it comes on as soon as I start the car, but never again. After I clear the codes, and start the car, I assume the code won't trigger until I drive for awhile and the battery warms up. But, I'm thinking that maybe it's a "soft" code, because the CEL never comes on, but the next time I start it, the ECU sees it and throws the triangle.

Hell, IDK. Maybe that makes no sense either. But still, also recall that this car has a dent in the driver's real quarterpanel - right where that battery fan sits inside the trunk. And, sure enough, that metal is pushed against the fan when I pull out the trunk liner. And the switch connects in the back, right where the metal was pressed in against the fan. I had to remove the fan to disconnect it.

But, I don't see anything broken. And the fan seems to run fine when I power it with 12v. So, my question is, if you know the answer or care to guess: is there a way to force the ECU to power the fan, so I can use my meter to see if voltage makes it to that connector?

How about a wilder guess? Is there anything else that can trigger a 3077 except the fan not blowing?

 

oops delete.

 

Thx, RJ. I have an old XP version of TS, on an old Dell laptop that quit. probably easier for me to upgrade TS - this laptop I'm using is Win7. If I recall, though, TS is a PITA to install. I think I'm going to let my son mess with it - I gave him one of these cars, so he's invested too, lol. He programs my VCR too.

Or, are you saying that Dr. Prius by itself can do that? I'll check it out.

Ya figger this could cause a 3077?

40371402_Image_9 by ronlewis posted Aug 6, 2022 at 9:37 PM

 

OK, I've recognize Dr. Prius now. I had it on an old phone. I don't see any function to start the fan, although there's a check box to "override battery temperature," whatever than means. Is this a good Prius code reader? I see those functions, one for Battery Errors and one for Engine Errors. I'll try it out tomorrow. All of these parts should work fine on my parts car, if I need any of them to fix this. I was able to push a lot of that dent out by hand.

 

Cool, so I should be able to Ready the car, slide the Temp low, and hear the fan kick on? If not immediately, then after driving for a bit to warm up the battery? Such that when I pull over and leave the car Ready, I could pop the trunk and hear the fan to confirm it operates? I'll check the fuse for it as well. Maybe the wreck popped the fuse.

I'll try that today. Hmm, wonder what's next when/if I confirm it is operating? Fan works, wiring to it good, ECU capable of turning it on...why wouldn't it? because it's not sensing heat from the battery, or wiring between that sensor and the ECU/battery ECU. But, I'll cross that bridge when I get there.

OK, doesn't sound like an overall code reader that could substitute for TechStream. I'm not going to worry about TS right now. This 3077 could logically be my only problem, except for the brakes, and I can get those through the car's display.

Thx for helping.

 

OK, that was easy. It was the blower motor fuse, lol. I took the motor out first, haha, but that's OK, I needed all that out to work on the fender dent.

I still got the brake issue. About to research that and go check display diag. The Brake and ABS lamps only go off when I'm braking and turning left at the same time. Just barely touch the wheel left, and the lamps go off for about 10 seconds. Braking straight or to the right, no lamp. At all times, the brakes seem to work just fine and the reservoir is OK. Let's see what the diag says.

 

OK, the dash display sequence was 14, 15, longer pause, then 14, 18, long pause, then repeats. I think the 15 relates to drivers rear speed sensor, and that's where the dent in the car is, and the ABS/Brake lamps only go off when I turn left. So, I crawled under and, sure enough, that connector is loose and possibly broken. I'll go back with a flashlight and see how far the wiring harness goes to the previous connector. If it's easy to remove, I'll just swap in one from my parts car. Doesn't appear to be unsafe until then.

Oops, just recall that my son said there was a leak, something on his new garage floor, and he assumed it was brake fluid. I'll look for that too.