Featured No Demand For EVs-Says Toyota

Ouch .... that's harsh.

 

Good article, thanks for sharing!

I especially enjoyed the point by point rebuttal of Toyota’s statement.

I must add one though…If the infrastructure for EVs at the current time is reason to not push forward with EVs, why all the cheerleading for hydrogen, which has so much less infrastructure?

 

If hybrids are the answer, why take your time in bringing them to market? Why only open the patents once other companies started switching to plug ins?

 

i would like to see his comments in context, and the poll is not convincing, based on observation of american habits

 

They were referencing this article, Toyota Exec Says Lack Of Consumer Demand Makes U.S. Goal Of 50% Electric Vehicles By 2030 A Long Shot
Electrek didn't hide the context.

Hollis' comments on demand are based upon the EV market not changing from today's conditions for 7 years.
"“The consumer isn’t demanding it at that level. The consumer is not screaming, ‘30% or 40% by tomorrow,’ ” Hollis said."
No body was claiming they were. The best projections/hopes in context of the article came from the original Build Back Better Act that didn't pass. That was 50% new sales being EVs by 2030. California's new law calls for 68% by that time, starting at 35% in 2026.

So, no one was expecting 30% or 40% tomorrow. This years EV sales for California are already over 16%, so 30% to 40% is looking possible in a few years time. We do know that the plug market share has grown faster than the hybrid one, which Hollis also uses for claiming why there isn't EV demand. Of course, part of the reason the hybrid segment took so long to grow was that Toyota took their time expanding choices, and couldn't give up on non-hybrid profits when they did release a hybrid version.

 

The Charger EV concept has a multispeed transmission. It also has a fake engine noise that can exceed 180 decibels. These EVs are targeting customers that otherwise would never consider an EV. If it works, it's a good thing.

Multispeed EV transmissions might also play a part in affordable BEVs, by allowing smaller batteries, and lower power rated motors.

 

No demand ..... is that why Toyota is pushing back against EV's? Demand is a great litmus test. So, let Toyota use that litmus test to decide whether or not to push their hydrogen car. All that lobbying to get others to subsidize that infrastructure - so expensive & limited .... as is the technology to inexpensively build the cars? Yea ... talk about speaking out of both sides of your face.

 

there is a huge demand for hydrogen cars, i was just talking to george jetson the other day. and his wife, jane...

 

You would think with all the ECUs in a typical hybrid, they could make a multi speed transmission that does shifting based on power requests. Lexus already makes their e-CVT and power hybrids paddle shift capable.


iPad ? Pro

 

I believe the Camry hybrids can to, but it didn't sound like actual shifting from the manual. It was more the Prius B gear with selectable levels.
The RWD Lexus hybrids with the multistage system has a 4 speed auto on the back end of the HSD, so you could do real shifts with it.

Don't know what Toyota is planning, but it sounded like the Charger had real gears, and not just software to simulate it.

 

Oh! I never knew they were hydrogen...that must be how they get them to fly

Mike

 

more likely just to be able to get the tax credit for plug in hybrids

 

Well. In North America (Quebec-Canada) Automakers Only sell sedan-VUS-pickup trucks now And they go from 35k to 65k. Someone that does 40-55k a year cant even afford an EV for how much they cost because everything else like groceries, insurance, Mortgage and or rent is stupidly high. I know they analyze market by what is popular but like me or my girlfriend. I got a Prius c 2018 and she got a 2014 Yaris and saw yesterday the GA-B platformed Yaris being hybrid. But they wont be available in NA like the Yaris GR and several other small cars like the Aqua (Prius C) anymore.If they could actually make a mid sized EV sedan or Compact car i would want to have an EV but i'm never gonna pay 65K for a sedan too big for me. I even find the Chevrolet Bolt too pricey for 40k +

 

The way I see it, the people who buy new cars tend to be richer than most. A median household wage in the USA is close to $6,000 per month. An average car payment is close to $600, and most financial advisers recommend not paying more than 10% of your income on all your vehicle payments, and some even recommend less than that, with the goal of putting all transportation costs within 10% to 20% of your families income. Seeing how "median wage" means half of the populations makes less than that $6,000 per month about half of American families cannot afford an average new car even if they're a one car family.

Of course a family could get some cheaper new cars. But before COVID, it was possible to get a 3 to 5 year old car for half or even a quarter of the original price. Right now finding a used car for those kinds of prices is tough. It should go back to normal some day, but I think there's always a chance it'll end up like in some countries I've been to where cars just don't hardly depreciate, meaning you're best off buying new even if it costs you an arm and a leg. The good new, in such an economy, is that once you get an expensive new car paid off, you can sell it for a lot and now have a bigger down payment so your next vehicle is now cheaper to you, the buyer.

More or less a $40,000 loan with a $10,000 down payment or trade-in for 5 years is around $600 per month. $20,000 with a $5,000 down payment or trade-in is around $300 per month. In other words, a family making $4,500 per month (41% of Amarican families make this or less) can afford one $30,000 car with a $7,500 down payment, or a single $22,500 car with no down payment and end up spending about 20% of their income on their vehicle. With rents going up and many families spending way more than 30% of their income on housing, buying even two cheap cars could eat well into their income.

Of course you could do a 7 year loan, but personally I wouldn't recommend that as I've known of people, even with Pandemic used car pricing, that are in the hole and can't sell their car since they owe more than what they can get for it.

So in other words, buying a new EV isn't realistic for most families, even in the USA where wages are higher than most countries.

I'm intersted in buying an EV some day, but right now the most I could afford, besides a Leaf, would be a used Bolt if I sold the Avalon. But I'm not sure if a used Bolt for a single car family in a mountainous, cold, somewhat isolated region would be a good idea right now.

 

Isn't a new Bolt on the order of $26k right now?

 

probably not in canada