What features would make you jump ship?

Not being fully electric.
If they sold a Prius EV, I'd buy it immediately.

The new 2023 model is fantastic for anybody looking to save drastically on fuel, coming from a regular ICE car, without the problems related to diesel engines, and if having access reliably to a plug, but living in a country where EV charging network is absent or lagging, getting a Prime is one of the best solutions towards moving away from fossil fuels. I am especially talking for people not living in the USA.
Anybody living in the USA that have a garage or a reliable place to plug a vehicle, should feel morally obligated to get, at the very least (and assuming the budget is available), a plug-in hybrid. And those who don't, should get a hybrid. Buying a full blown ICE vehicle today is a crime against the planet and humanity.

I currently own a 2021 Prime. I get regularly 55+mpg without even trying, and averaged with the EV miles I drive (about half of the total), I am hovering around 100+mpg. Getting a new 2023 Prime would save me a few bucks a year (considering also how cheap electricity and gas are in the USA) and it would not do much more good to the planet as I think and hope I am already doing today.

Considering I live in US suburbia, as much as I can limit travel, public transport or using a bicycle, let alone walking, is not an option.
Because I agree with somebody else's comment here or on another thread, the best way to avoid pollution, CO2 emissions, etc. is to simply not using a car in the first place. Unless you can source 100% renewable electricity and manage to offset the CO2 and pollution required to be able to produce that 100% renewable electricity in the first place.

I have been debating since the announcement of the new Prius whether or not to get a 2023 Prime based on features that are certainly improving on a 2021 Prime. But I cannot come to a definitive "yes". The outgoing Prime is is a 5-10 year old platform, but nothing on it makes me scream "I need a 2023 Prime!"

I'll probably sit and wait until Toyota (or somebody else) comes out with a compelling EV car. I am lucky to have my own garage and my driving habits don't require long enough trips to require a reliable and extensive DC charging network (direly needed).
I don't care one bit about all the EV crossovers, SUVs, and trucks they put out there.

 

I struggle with deciding what car to get when I need a car. It's nice having this kind of pep talk to encourage those like me to do the right thing. I almost got a Prime when they first came out, but realized that I wouldn't get hardly any of the tax credit. I did try to make a Leaf work for us once though.

Really, the right thing for me to do would be to ditch driving a car and just ride my bike. Work is a mile away from my house and the whole town is 5 miles from end to end, plenty doable on a bicycle. But knowing so many who have been ran over on their bikes or walking in this little town is unnerving. That, and I already feel like all these pickup and SUV drivers have it out for me as it is in my sedan.

I agree with you. I hope my Avalon hybrid lasts, but if there's a compelling EV, I'll jump on it.

Making utilitarian EV's is ok, but not at all practical when I need to get the farthest on the smallest, cheapest battery possible.

 

Well, yes, we need a better battery chemistry built using more affordable and easy to souce materials. Li-Ion is a stop-gap tech borrowed from consumer electronics for something a lot better along the line. What is out there today in terms of battery in cars you can buy is already obsolete anyway, even for Li-Ion batteries. Tesla is a bit further ahead, but not by much.

We just got delivery of an i4, BMW has already announced a new Li-Ion battery coming out in the next couple of years on the same car (probably they are qualifying it) that is smaller and more efficient, albeit not in a revolutionary way.

Solid-state chemistries are the next step, or who knows what else research centers have already available and trying to figure out how to produce reliably, efficiently and at automotive grade quality/standards.

Let's also not forget Chinese car/battery manufactures. They are a decade ahead in terms of adoption and number and variety of models (most EV cars today are sold in China). They need a new type of batter "now". Li-Ion is unsustainable, even for them and for the planet at large, already in the short term. Seeing what the pick-up rates on the markets worldwide are, those who come out with a better battery will dominate the market and start the true EV revolution.

Still, I'd rather see an electric SUV/pick-up truck/crossover, than an equivalent ICE version doing 5mpg.

 

But what if I'm craving a Subaru Impreza (for the stick shift and low starting price)?

 

Go ahead and get one. I am not here to tell anybody what to do with their money and their conscience.

But I am really annoyed by those who drive a box that does 30 mpg (say 20) or less in 2023, and then complain, when the gas prices go up, that cannot make ends meet and that it’s [president’s name/some other person’s name other than their own] fault.

The options are available, and we can work to improve the planet by choosing certain options vs other ones: it is a matter of choice.

 

Yes, fuel prices are a pain. But they are hardly the most expensive thing about owning a car. With the average person paying $1,000 per month for a car loan these days, you'd have to pay $5 per gallon in a 20mpg vehicle and drive 4,000 miles per month to equal that cost.

I just wish there were an EV/PHEV that appealed to me other than "it's fast and got instant torque" which doesn't really appeal to me.

 

People complain when they spend 300$ instead of 50$ a month in gas. They are more than happy to spend $1000 a month for the 75k$ truck they never use for the intended purpose. Or the SUV also doing 15 mpg.

 

True.

My current budget is 20% of my income or $600 per month: $200 for car payment, $200 for insurance and taxes, maintenance and repairs, and $200 for fuel (at 40mpg and up to 30,000 miles a year).

I suppose if I got an EV(or maybe PHEV?) the car payment could be more (say, $400?) as I'd have less to pay for maintenance and fuel (but taxes would go up on a newer car). $400 per month would be a $20,000 loan for 5 years, which is possible with trading in the Avalon. But then I'd have to give up all I've done to the Avalon (custom trailer hitch, wires routed all over and holes drilled for Amateur radio stuff and antennas, and a whole extra set of Avalon rims with snow tires on them). I also would not get much from any tax credit.

Decisions, Decisions.

 

The average person is not paying $1000/month. Don’t be misled.

 

Ah! I read it wrong. 15% of new car buyers pay $1,000 per month. The average new car buyer pays $648 per month. The average used car buyer pays $503 per month.

 

Need more than individuals to change behavior though.

 

I do my part the best I can, within my means. And vote.
If everybody did it, we probably wouldn’t be were we are now. Little steps and little pieces can add up to a lot.

 

Exactly and even though GM new "Hummer" is an EV, it's still a fat pig that cost over $100,000. Yea maybe great for planet except when it going at a speed of 70 MPH and hits a smaller car - look out.

 

Reminds me of the joke of the guy that was selling computers for a million dollars each. His friend told him that at that price he wasn't going to sell very many computers. So he replied "I don't have to."

I do miss my Leaf a lot though.

 

Right now nobody seems to be looking at the mpge of EVs and plug-in hybrids, but it seems that what is introduced on the US market is just an electric wasteful version of the ICE vehicles they replace. The Hummer EV is rated 47MPGe which is a disgrace. Rivian and F-150 are not much better around 60-7mpge.
Surely they get electricity that most likely is not from renewables but generated in a plant that burns more efficiently and cleaner than a small vehicle could ever do. But you need a good chunk of that power plant to feed their hungry batteries that use half a mountain of lithium.
We go back to square one: driving huge electricity guzzlers to go nowhere. At least now when in traffic they consume (almost) nothing. And don’t stink.

PS: the Prime at 133 MPGe is one of the most efficient electric drivetrains out there. Only Tesla is better. I think that any vehicle out there that doesn’t manage 100mpge or more, considering that older tech like the 2017 Prime achieves 133, and Teslas are also around that number, shouldn’t be bought. But if people don’t check fuel consumption as it is, you can imagine if they check the MPGe of their new EV. Just the range. Until they start seeing how much they need to spend on that huge battery to move around a super heavy huge vehicle, with power electronics that waste electricity who knows how.

 

The mpge of the Rivian and F150 does mean they are much better than an equivalent ICE pick up truck for carbon emissions. The issue is that there isn't much that can be done for aerodynamics. The fix is in somehow convincing people they don't need the truck.

 

I was convinced the first time I got my tools stolen out of the back of my truck.

 

That's probably why most trades people have stopped getting the basic cab models.

 

What about 209MPGe?

 

it takes legislative rudder to turn a large ship