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Time for a new traction battery

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Technical Discussion' started by don_chuwish, Jan 7, 2023.

  1. don_chuwish

    don_chuwish Well Seasoned Member

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    Thanks for the input, but this car is worth so much more to us as a usable vehicle than what it could sell for that I'm not about to part with it. Insurance cost is minimal.
     
  2. don_chuwish

    don_chuwish Well Seasoned Member

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    Haven't driven it enough yet to have any valid first impressions. I have some other projects to work on today but may get it out on the road some more.
    Yes that's the Dr. Prius app. I'm using the Carista OBDII connector. I went with that one because I use it with our newer Prius Prime to configure settings as well.
     
  3. don_chuwish

    don_chuwish Well Seasoned Member

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    One other thing to add about the battery blades. I checked voltage on each one before installing and they were all exactly the same at 16.32V. (Instructions say that variation up to .05V is OK.)
    Definitely a sense of good build quality right from the unboxing.
     
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  4. JasonMRC

    JasonMRC New Member

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    This thread is very encouraging to me as I am preparing to replace my battery on a recently purchased 08 Prius. I had read some stuff about Project Lithium's new pack but most of it was old, so it was very nice to find someone who had used this route only a week ago!

    Do you have an idea of performance yet?
     
  5. don_chuwish

    don_chuwish Well Seasoned Member

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    I've only had it on a few short cold drives so I can't say anything about MPG yet. Also, I've been driving our Prius Prime in EV mode so much that it makes it difficult to gauge the before & after. But I have noticed that SOC seems to stay higher in general. In terms of driving feel it is still too early to tell but I have no complaints or concerns.

    - D
     
  6. TampaToma

    TampaToma Junior Member

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    Approx how long did it take you to install the new battery?
     
  7. don_chuwish

    don_chuwish Well Seasoned Member

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    Taking it slow and careful, about 6-7 hours on a Saturday. Not really difficult at all. Lifting it out and putting it back in do require some strength and agility - or get some help.
     
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  8. Paul33570

    Paul33570 Junior Member

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    What ever happen with your updates? I am thinking of going lithium. Would love to hear a little more!
     
  9. don_chuwish

    don_chuwish Well Seasoned Member

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    It’s been fine but I still don’t drive it enough to make any valid observations. Haven’t done more than 10 miles in one go so it’s always a cold start short drive.
    They have their V2 modules out now that feature some improvements to the logic board and temp sensors.
     
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  10. The Beast1

    The Beast1 Junior Member

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    Friendly bump of this thread. I saw that project lithium is sadly out-of-stock for all of their lithium batteries.
    Do they get more periodically? My traction battery is meh, with Dr Prius saying about 30% left. I'd like to get the battery before it dies so I don't have to get more of the same.
     
  11. don_chuwish

    don_chuwish Well Seasoned Member

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    Can't speak for how often they get restocked, but they are very responsive if you just ask them directly. Buying now would get you the V2 logic boards too.
     
  12. The Beast1

    The Beast1 Junior Member

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    Yeah, I saw that from your post. Seems like a perfect time to get in on one! :cool:
     
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  13. Isaac Zachary

    Isaac Zachary Senior Member

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    Do these have heaters/freeze-protection yet? I may get one for the Prius this summer as I need an HV battery for it.
     
  14. don_chuwish

    don_chuwish Well Seasoned Member

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    Not that I know of. The V2 has better temp sensor placement than the original though.
     
  15. don_chuwish

    don_chuwish Well Seasoned Member

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    So today I finally forced myself to take it on a highway drive instead of the newer Prime.
    It was a about 140 miles round trip, up and back on I-5 doing 72mph. Perfect weather, about 75 degrees and no rain, no significant wind in any direction. It drove great, didn't really feel any different from usual.
    Before my original battery coughed up the 4 cells that started this whole adventure, I would expect 48-50mpg for this drive.
    Today it did 47.7mpg for the trip. I had fueled up and reset before hitting the highway. Not bad, but not an improvement either.
    However, there are other variables to consider.
    A little while before the battery situation, my wife had tried to straddle a retread scrap on the highway. Unfortunately it was too big and tore apart the front air dam, the left front wheel well liner, all the plastic lining behind the bumper, and the left rear wheel spoiler. I put on a new front bumper cover and a Prius Offroad skid plate. So now it doesn't have a chin spoiler or either of the front wheel spoilers along with the left rear wheel spoiler still missing. I'm pretty sure this all has a significant effect on aero. Oh, and I also added a Miller Cat V2 shield as well.
    Someday I'll get around to the wheel spoilers and if I can find something to make a chin spoiler I will. Not really a priority though!
     
  16. alftoy

    alftoy Senior Member

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    Project Lithium next shipment expected mid June.
     
  17. pasadena_commut

    pasadena_commut Senior Member

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    I wouldn't expect much difference from either the chin spoiler or the front wheel spoilers, and none (measurable) from the rear wheel spoiler. The car is already very low, it isn't like a truck, where there is a huge gap between the body and the road. Mine has been running without a chin spoiler for a long time now (because it tore apart on something and it just wasn't worth the effort to put in another to meet the same fate eventually.) It does have the front wheel spoilers. Gets close to 50 mpg on the highway LA to SJ via the I5 with cruise control set to 72 or 73. I suspect that the difference the chin spoiler would make would be in the noise between measurements trip to trip.

    A missing wheel liner might have a bigger effect. Not sure. You want one anyway to keep mud and road junk from being tossed into places it shouldn't go, like into the top of the struts or caked all over the thermos.

    I think the bottom panels immediately behind the bumper are somewhat important for drag - they get the flow along the bottom started in a more of laminar manner, whereas if there was just the bumper there would probably be a vortex formed parallel to the front of the car right behind it, between the car and the road. The off road skid plate should do pretty much the same thing if it is like this one:



    A cat shield is a plus aerodynamically, but it is pretty far back, and I doubt that its effect could be measured at 70mph. Maybe at 90, but if you're going that fast, mpg is in the toilet for other reasons.
     
  18. sasmyth

    sasmyth New Member

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    Great thread here guys!
    I just picked up an 07 with 211k miles with a Factory replaced battery at 140k which is limping on it's battery moderately (best I can tell as an EV/hybrid but Insight/Volt enthusiast, not Prius). No orange triangles or dash codes, but Dr. Prius coughed up a 0607? code which is apparently ambiguous but likely reflecting the battery's lameness? The 0th blade seems to be weak compared to the others but I can't really understand the values/trades yet. I think it consistently shows 25microOhms internal resistance while the others are a tad lower (23, 24?) and often shows a much higher/lower voltage during charge/discharge than the others...

    The main symptom of "failing battery" is a MPG of 40ish and a very fast fill/drain of the battery (to my untrained eye). I haven't evaluated the self-discharge yet, but the dashboard icon anecdotally seems to drop between parking at night and startup in the morning. I also have been seeing high battery temps (albeit on hot days here ~95) like running up to over 120F (group 1 and 2 heat up quicker than 3?) and I haven't *heard* the fan, but also haven't dug under the rear deck either (did I mention how hot it is here?)

    I was surprised that toggling the headlight stem like I was flashing brights brought up a notice "can't go into EV mode right now".... the car *will* creep in a drive-through or in stop-go traffic a little before firing the ICE (if the battery shows at least a few bars) but I didn't even know Gen2 had a "force EV mode" or know why it would deny me the privilege (except a bad battery?!) Any insight there is good.

    I felt a lot like the OP here, wanting to hold out for a NEXcell kit that might give this car another 10 years, 100k miles trouble-free but I don't want to wait... my partner (for whom I bought the car) needs to drive to WI from NM (1200 miles) in 6 weeks and I don't want to put her in the position of doing it on a "failing" battery. NEXcell shows that they are sold out on their July delivery... not sure what that means, but probably pushes me out of range.

    Unlike the OP, I'd like to keep my own pack... I heard somewhere there was (only) a $150 Core on GreenBeans $1525 (mobile install included) replacement (3 year warranty). I have Insight NiMH and Volt LiPO cells I use broadly on various utility/solar projects and a Prius pack would be an interesting addition!

    Any feedback on how to evaluate pack/cell health (esp. with Dr. Prius) and any intell on GreenBean (also GreenTec) or other sources of refurbed packs would be good. I'd consider a grid charger but the warranties from both of those seem to allude to that invalidating the warranty (out of their control)...

    tx
    - Steve
     
  19. don_chuwish

    don_chuwish Well Seasoned Member

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    Time for a bit of an update here.
    A few weeks back I took the car out again for a rare drive going to the gym. (My wife had the '22 at the time.)
    On the way out it gave a red triangle but still drove OK. With a little time to kill I connected Dr. Prius app in the parking lot of the gym and could see it was a P3000 error and modules 7 and 8 were showing low voltage. I cleared the code, turned off the car and went to the gym.
    On the way back home I monitored the pack with the app and could see that 7 and 8 stayed low, but no new codes were generated.

    I contacted Jack and he told me to send him all the modules. He'd warranty any that were failed and upgrade all of them to V2, I just pay shipping. He also asked me to check the plug connections at the ECU for fouling/corrosion:

    I sent him the modules using a shipping label he provided. Checking my ECU the pins were in fact significantly fouled. This was after I'd cleaned it up as much as I could:

    ecu_plug.png

    Jack still rebuilt my pack, upgraded it to V2 and shipped the modules back to me. I reimbursed shipping via PayPal.
    Meantime I'd gotten a good used ECU and wiring harness replacement.

    Got it all back together last weekend and an initial test drive was good.
    Yesterday I took it for a highway round trip of about 140 miles and it did great, better than when I first upgraded the pack. It feels much spunkier at low end and did 48mpg at 75mph. Dry cool weather.

    So now I'm convinced that the fouled ECU pins were the original culprit all along. See the first post in this thread, modules 7 and 8 were the ones with low voltage.

    This is getting long, but here's the whole failure root cause: we sold our house.
    More specifically, we sold our house and lost covered parking for the Gen2. It had a rear hatch roof leak I didn't know about, moisture got in, fouled the ECU plug and that started this whole thing.
    I found the moisture the first time I removed the pack, fixed the leak after some searching on the topic, but didn't put 2 and 2 together. Probably could have fixed the whole thing with just the ECU & harness.

    Really makes me wonder how many other traction battery packs have been replaced prematurely for this reason.

    But kudos to Jack for amazing service and advice. Couldn't have asked for more.

    [​IMG]
     
  20. pasadena_commut

    pasadena_commut Senior Member

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    Anybody recall which two modules show up funny in Dr. Prius when the safety plug has been pulled?

    It crossed my mind when replacing my pack recently that if the connectors in that plug were dirty it would look like increased pack resistance. But all the contacts on mine were clean and shiny, so even if this is possible, that wasn't what was going on in my car.