Hybrid Battery Failing Questions

Do you have warning lights and an error code? Those screen shots don't indicate anything is wrong with your pack?

There's two modules in #8 and only one of those modules may have been bad... The challenge you're facing is matching a replacement module that is similar in both age and capacity with your existing pack. By replacing both modules in #8 rather than just the bad module you're making it twice as hard to be successful in matching up a module with the pack.

Also learn about deep cycling the pack to restore capacity, aka: reconditioning.

I suspect someone sold you some low quality replacement modules. This dude sells high quality ones: https://2ndlifebattery.com/contact-us/

Lastly cylindrical modules are inferior compared to OEM and won't last more than a 3-5 years... If you want to avoid long term hassles as well as save money by boosting MPG, as well as upgrade overall performance, this is the best option: https://projectlithium.com/?ref=9qLPw And if you use that link to purchase I'll offer you unlimited tech support.

 

I'll make sure to message you the day before they're available via direct message... Likely another week or so...

 

The high temps probably led to the main issue. Shocked how many users who uses this app doesn’t reconfigure the app to turn hv fan on.

 

How do you know this?

 

Lithiumproject coolaid

 

I'd be interested to know why.

 

I was actually over at InsightCentral.net today researching how to convert Honda cylindrical cells/sticks pack to Prius modules for a project to help out Nexcell hook up Honda owners. And while doing that research I ran across someone asking that very question. So here you get the best answer to that question:

Prius prismatic modules last longer because:
--Narrower cross section, so they can run cooler.

--Higher surface area to volume, so they run cooler.

--Better cooling system design.

--Better battery management.

--Common vent space shared by 6 cells. This helps keep the individual cells within a module balanced. Pack behaves more like 28 different cells vs. 168 cells.

--Capable of higher currents, 150A discharge, 90A charge.

Prius module reliability has been dramatically better than Honda "D" cell by a good measure... even though they're made by the same manufacturer...
Using Prius NiMH modules? | Honda Insight Forum

 

White it can be somewhat related - I'm not terribly interested in a opinion on a cylindrical pack for a Honda Insight. The cars are too different in pack and case design and I'm sure software control as well.

Here's a professional and manufacturer facts about the cylindrical cells made for the Prius:

• More power than OEM
• Lower resistance makes regenerative breaking charges quicker
• Air gap are larger so it cools better than OEM

And you can read more about the above from here. And I'm still wondering PriusCamper why you think that the battery won't last more than 3-5 years?

 

Interesting. The post linked to seems to be comparing the complete batteries of the Prius to the Insight, so while some of the differences are about the cells, others pertain to external components (cooling system, battery management).

Agreed.

The prismatics do have a higher surface area-to-volume ratio, but there is precious little separation between the individual modules. If the separation were greater, airflow would be less restricted and cooling would improve. Replacing the prismatics with cylindrical modules leaves a lot more space empty for airflow.

I'm not sure I understand why a shared vent space would (help) keep the individual cells balanced.

How do these compare to the what the car needs, and to what a cylindrical pack can provide? The battery manual might offer a definitive source on these figures, but I do not have TIS subscription active at the moment or the spec sheet for any of these cylindrical cells. Without those sources, I wouldn't make a judgement one way or the other.

A spec sheet from the manufacturer might be more helpful than qualitative descriptions from a reseller. Unlike decribed, the technology is neither proprietary nor cutting edge, and both of those work in its favor because it has been well tested, at least in similar scenarios.

 

I did post the sheet in a link, should have made it easier to see: https://electronhybridsolution.com/product/toyota-prius-2010-2015-brand-new-hybrid-battery-rebuild-kit/

For the cooling, I don't know how Honda does their cooling - honestly I don't really care. But for the prius:

"The shape of cylindrical cells allows better air flow through the battery pack and eliminates the issue of prismatic cells in the center of battery packs overheating and causing batteries to fail prematurely."

 

I was hoping for a more detailed spec sheet from a manufacturer detailing the current/voltage/temperature characteristics. Electron Hybrid Solutions seems to be a reseller of these modules, not the manufacturer.

 

Prius cells are hard plastic top and bottom and a super thin foil on the side... This foil is designed to maximize the amount of air flow across the surface of the sides of the cell. Just because the round D-type cells has more air flow through the pack doesn't mean they run cooler, they actually run hotter because they have much thicker walls that the heat is trapped behind.

The round D-type cells welded together in sticks of 6 cells have no vents. This means if you have a bad cell heating up it can't vent and will overheat the rest of the cells because there's very little way for that heat and pressure to get out. What's more in reconditioning the round sticks I had a couple explosions where they failed at the welds. Whereas when the Prism fails it simply fills up a water balloon I put on all the vent tubes and I put a knot in the toxic gas in the balloon and dispose of it and it's safe. Whereas the round sticks explode that toxic gas and electrolyte everywhere, which sucks when you're working in an enclosed space in winter.

What the car needs is less archaic battery chemistry (NiMH) that's not 40 years old. But Toyota is greedy and has lots of highly profitable proprietary/patent control of this particular obsolete battery chemistry that was leading edge technology in the 1980's and commercially introduced in early 1990's. One of the reasons Toyota is not building EV cars at scale like all other auto makers is they don't have the same profit margin with lithium that they have with their current junk batteries, which are too heavy to put in an EV car... I mean just 1.3kw of battery power in your Prius is equivalent to driving around with an 80 pound bag of concrete in your trunk. And some long range EV cars pack over 100kw of power. If you did that with Toyota's battery chemistry the battery alone would weigh twice as much as your whole car.

Whereas Project Lithium sells a Prius upgrade pack that weighs just under 40 pounds and is the most advanced and safest lithium chemistry developed in the 2010's (LiFePo4) and it not only eliminates issues with heat and need for cooling, but you have way more amps to power your AC, and you get better MPGs and when you're climbing a steep mountain pass or running in EV mode in traffic you have way more remaining charge available. These batteries also charge up way faster when going down the other side of the mountain.

Also I offer unlimited tech support if you buy with my affiliate link: https://projectlithium.com/?ref=9qLPw

All the spec sheets for all three options will be pretty much the same because that's what Prius Battery ECU requires or it will throw error codes and shut down. So it's not a spec sheet thing but a material design and material quality and lifespan debate between the three of them...

 

Lol... Chris Fix on YouTube is your "professional source" ?

The truth is the cylindrical cells aren't vented and have the worst rating in terms of heat dissipation and pressure release (preventing explosions) and Toyota introduced the first Prius in the late 1990's in Japan only because they decided it'd be safer to wait for the new prsim design for batteries which is safer and last longer before introducing the first Prius to US and other markets in early 2000's.

The guy on here who sells "New Prius Batteries" which are this round design has already got people complaining about replacing modules, which is an end of life routine after only 5 years. We've also had complaints about the cheaper Chinese ones lasting an even shorter period of time.

 

Yeah got me, I looked and didn't find much either.

 

Yeah but wasn't he referring to the other type - CEBA batteries? I don't think these cells have been around more than a few years. I'll have to look into it more.

 

Don’t like to read extra curricular that’s not relevant to the Prius eh?