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Prius is extremely slow/poor mpgs now

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Care, Maintenance and Troubleshooting' started by hyp3rmil3r, Jun 11, 2023.

  1. hyp3rmil3r

    hyp3rmil3r Member

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    I have an 05 with 247k on it

    Purchases with 223k and it ran like a gem. 50-55mpgs all day.

    Then my catalytic converter got stolen. Replaced with an amazon cat, and it ran ok. Would sputter and chug when cold and then kinda run fine. A little more rough transitions from ev to ice mode. This was about two years ago.

    Now I’ve been doing lots of highway driving. The car sincerely struggles to accelerate beyond 65mph.

    0-60 when new is 10.8 seconds
    0-60 for my car was 18.9 seconds yesterday in a test.

    I’ve done regular oil changes. Just put new spark plugs in and cleaned the throttle body. That 0-60 test was after all that. Made no difference.

    I do have CEL on for o2 sensors but ive never had that cause much issue in any other cars. Could it be the MAF? Weak coils? Is the amazon cat the culprit? Anyone ever experience this? It is dangerously slow. I cannot even pass people on highways because it takes so long.


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  2. Tombukt2

    Tombukt2 Senior Member

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    Sounds like you have a bad hybrid HV battery I don't know about any codes or any of that but sounds like something is robbing you of power and I'm not sure that that's necessarily in your engine or the ice portion of it usually this kind of shows up in the high voltage electrical end of things The motor generators in the transmission that sort of thing but you never know I run the same kind of car I have an '05 and a '09 I had quite a bit of this type of thing going on when my battery was 13 years old and falling on its face The minute that was changed was back to pretty normal I've never seen 5055 miles to the gallon on any kind of regular basis and I've put over 130,000 mi on generation 2 vehicle
     
  3. BiomedO1

    BiomedO1 Senior Member

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    You need to get the car to a good, professional, certified mechanic for a proper diagnostic.

    I would start with replacing the O2 sensor, with an OEM sensor - NOT an Amazon or Ebay one. That sensor determines air/fuel mixture and is sounds like the car is running very lean.

    Sputtering and chugging on cold starts are signs of a head gasket issue.

    Struggles to accelerate: probably only running on 3 cylinders. If you can't diagnose something as simple as that - you need to take it to a mechanic!!!!

    Sorry, That's all I can get out of my Crystal Ball - reminder; this is an internet diagnostic. Alot of shade-tree mechanics likes to just throw parts at problems; but I usually see them introducing even more problems with bad, counterfeit parts, breaking stripping and bending electrical connectors along the way.
     
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  4. hyp3rmil3r

    hyp3rmil3r Member

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    [mention]Biomed [/mention] I think you are right. I was wrong to assume the car was fine without the o2s being in good working state.

    The plugs i removed yesterday were white on the tips (lean). I checked out the MAF today with a scanner and it seems to be functioning very well and reacting accordingly to my throttle input.

    I then noticed on my scanner the cars fuel system was “OL_FAULT” - aka, its been running open loop. Bingo.

    The upstream o2 is a freaking pain and I really don’t want to do it but that’s my answer. And unfo upstream is the one that does all the A/F related stuff for the engine. Oh well, I am pretty sure that’s the culprit.

    Will leave this post up for future readers!


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  5. Leadfoot J. McCoalroller

    Leadfoot J. McCoalroller Senior Member

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    It could be a good sensor delivering bad news for some other reason. What are the actual diagnostic codes active at this time?
     
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  6. ColoradoCrow

    ColoradoCrow Active Member

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    Up stream before the cat? Isn't that the one that connects under the floor in the passenger footwall close to the center hump?
     
  7. hyp3rmil3r

    hyp3rmil3r Member

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    Upstream yes before the cat. It is under the wiper cowl and supposedly a pain to remove.

    Downstream is the one that can be accessed in the pass footwell (wires) and is easily accessible just by jacking the car up.


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  8. edthefox5

    edthefox5 Senior Member

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    If it has the original hybrid battery there you go. Its 18 years old.

    You never mentioned the battery consumption behavior on the mfd the screen above the radio. Does it tank to 1 on no blue bars real fast at a light or in a drive through? And takes blocks to put back some blue bars?

    Do you ever see purple battery bars?

    The bulk of all power comes from the hybrid battery. Without its 100% participation the car is now a 90 horsepower go kart and your basically flooring the car to get it to go. This is stage 1 of battery failure.

    And your flogging the engine to prop up the loss of battery power that's hard on a high mileage old engine so keep an eye on the engine oil level.

    Battery failure on a G2 is extremely common. Probably a thousand posts about it now on the G2 forum.
     
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  9. TMR-JWAP

    TMR-JWAP Senior Member

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    If you are having problems while the car is at speed, it is more likely an engine 'making power' issue, not a HV battery issue.
    How does the car respond when accelerating from a stop? When under 42 mph, are you able to go battery only?
    Which Amazon catalytic converter did you purchase?
    Which O2 sensor did you install? Brand and model?
    Rock Auto has the Denso O2 sensors for about 50-60 bucks. I've had great success with those.

    Sometimes we have to remember the hybrid operation. In simple terms:
    Atkinson cycle engines are weak on the bottom end, this is where the HV battery does the majority of it's 'thing'.
    They are very efficient when at rpm. That's where they do their thing.
    That doesn't cover all possibilities, but just in general.
     
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  10. hyp3rmil3r

    hyp3rmil3r Member

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    Battery is probably not top notch health. At highway speeds it almost always drains out to one bar and I am relying on the ICE to handle the load of the vehicle.

    Around town HV battery charges up fine and I can roll around in EV mode pretty easily.

    My 0-60 test where I got 18.9 seconds was after coming down a massive hill and the HV was nearly full (green bars, only one below full). I pulled immediately onto a highway, stopped to zero and mashed the gas. With the HV depleted I imagine that acceleration would have been well beyond 20 seconds.

    I know what your thinking - “its the battery!” - I agree its probably on its way out. BUT I owned a 90hp 1.9 tdi jetta. That car accelerated just fine on highways and got out of its own way. This prius is dangerously slow. No way the engine is putting out its full 90hp by itself.

    I never replaced the downstream o2, in attempt to deter future theives from stealing my new CAT by leaving the old ones wires dangling. Upstream one went out awhile ago but I never replaced it as the car was running ok and it was a pain to get to.

    Today I took the car to a muffler shop to have both o2 sensors put in. I’ll likely disconnect the 12v too to reset the fuel trims in the system and have it relearn with the new sensors.

    The cat I installed cost about $115 on amazon. Most definitely a piece o junk but I needed something to replace the old one. I truthfully am not worried about an engine light from it (not that I have ever had a cat code in the system, only the dead o2s). Some have suggested it may be clogged but I installed it in August 2021. I can’t imagine it would be clogged already? No funny or unusual exhaust smells/smoke. No cat codes in system.

    Here’s to hoping my spark plug install and tb cleaning, in combo with new o2s and a battery unplug/replug will at least liven the car up a little bit.


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  11. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    the diesel probably has a lot more torque than the atkinson
     
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  12. Leadfoot J. McCoalroller

    Leadfoot J. McCoalroller Senior Member

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    So what codes are active?
     
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  13. hyp3rmil3r

    hyp3rmil3r Member

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    IMG_9802.jpg

    Mechanic reported to me this. Told me to have the HV battery inspected by toyota to make sure i dont waste more money on o2s if the car is going to be toast. Took the car back just now.

    P0031, P0037
    C1241, C1300, C2318

    I’ve done some brief reading on the C errors but I’ll let people chime in their thoughts here. No red triangle of death present.


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  14. Brucetafer

    Brucetafer Member

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    go to your car and go into the service menu on the screen.. engine off, ignition on, hold brake pedal, info button and switch headlights on and off 3 times.. turn off all electronics, fan, radio, lights door closed etc.

    report the voltage.. then turn on lights, and fan on high and report voltage.

    turn engine on, ready position, and repeat above..
     
  15. TMR-JWAP

    TMR-JWAP Senior Member

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    This is not complicated. The battery may be old, but it's fuctioning normally, especially with the low speed being normal.
    When the car is at high speed, the engine is not producing enough power and it's causing the battery to drain because the battery is trying to assist in a situation where it shouldn't be.

    This is not the first time we've been through this!!

    You need to find out why the engine is not developing power. It takes air, fuel, spark and exhaust. One of them is missing!!

    Sometimes you need to fix the obvious first. No upstream or downstream? Why would it be surprising if the cat was damaged? Pull it out and look at it, if needed, ram the catalyst out and try the car again with the free flow exhaust. If problem fixed, then at least you know..
     
  16. edthefox5

    edthefox5 Senior Member

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    Go on Amazon buy a Carista Bluetooth Dongle there like $40.

    Then get the DR Prius free phone app. You need that bluetooth Carista so your phone can talk via BT to the obd connector the carista plugs into. Dr Prius will pull hybrid codes and has a hybrid battery load test feature.

    In the meantime lets see how tired that battery is:

    Find a nice long flat stretch of highway. Need about 3 miles no lights.Shut off all accessory's no AC etc roll up the windows. Get the car up to 65 miles an hour. Turn on Cruise Control. Reset the mpg meter on the mfd, Clear it.

    Don't touch anything just let it run at 65 for about 3 miles. Make sure no hills.

    At the end of the 3 miles whats the mpg meter say on the mfd?

    I'm betting its 40-45 mpg. Stage 1.

    A perfect G2 hybrid battery will be 62-65 mpgs. That's what my 07 with a brand new battery pulled. It also pulled the 42-45 pre new battery.

    Good Luck.
     
  17. TMR-JWAP

    TMR-JWAP Senior Member

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    I'm curious what the battery test was that resulted in a 696 value. Maybe I'm having an elder moment, but what does the 696 represent?
     
  18. Brucetafer

    Brucetafer Member

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    must have been one of those eLoN MuSk testers, 420 means good, 696 means good, 42069 means GOOD....

    in all seriousness, 696 isn't even possible unless they are running some crazy lithium iron battery.. brand new optima yellow tops are 450CCA and I just put one in 2 hours ago and can verify...
     
  19. hyp3rmil3r

    hyp3rmil3r Member

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    I’ll check out the service diagnostic screen following steps above shortly. No clue what the 696 means for battery.

    I agree even if the battery (hv or 12v) were weak, the gas engine is still running rough. This all began when I took the car to get an oil change in 2021. It was running perfectly fine and smooth. After oil change it just was weird. At one point the gas engine died while driving and I had to pull over because it wouldn’t drive. I got it to drive back on EV, and eventually I got the gas engine to sputter back fine. Car was ok until recently, a few weeks ago it did the very same. This was before my catalytic converter was stolen, or the o2 sensor CELs were present. I’ve since had the oil changed again, but I have no clue how that one oil change would throw the car out of whack.


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  20. Leadfoot J. McCoalroller

    Leadfoot J. McCoalroller Senior Member

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    A $115 "cat" from Amazon will be a formed pipe and nothing more. There just isn't any other way to do the catalytic chemical reaction without a few hundred bucks worth of precious metals included in the auto part. So what you've got is a pipe that keeps the exhaust manifold connected to the resonator and downstream piping. No pollution reduction possible.

    The good news is that such a pipe is not likely to clog up the way a real catalyst would.

    The engine ECU is very dependent on the AFR data from the upstream sensor. I do not know if any process monitors the downstream for any data that would affect power output. (That does occur in some cars, I just don't know if the 2nd generation Prius is one of them.)

    You can always leave extra wires dangling to discourage repeat theft, but you should have your real ones doing their jobs to have any chance at normal operation.
     
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