1. Attachments are working again! Check out this thread for more details and to report any other bugs.

Excessive negative camber on my rear wheels

Discussion in 'Prius c Main Forum' started by Corkles, Sep 9, 2023.

  1. Corkles

    Corkles Junior Member

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2023
    7
    5
    0
    Location:
    Central, ky
    Vehicle:
    2014 Prius c
    Model:
    I
    2014 Prius C. I’ve recently developed an issue with extreme negative camber on both rear wheels. This has been gradually getting worse over the past month. Driver side is the worst. The top of my wheel is tilted in toward the strut. When I set a carpenter’s square against the bottom of the rear tire the top of the tire is 2 to 3 inches tilted in, away from the edge of the square. The tire has actually rubbed a hole in the strut cover. Visually it looks crazy, like something is about give out. I’ve taken the wheel off and bearings are good. The beam isn’t damaged and the car has never been wrecked. This is a solid axle beam, with no camber rod or camber adjustment. It does have a couple mounting legs or brackets that have bushings, but there is no obvious sign of being wore out. I can’t figure out what the cause of this is. The only mounting points are the spring perches and mounting brackets. Can anyone help me figure out which direction to take on this? IMG_0571.jpeg
     
  2. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

    Joined:
    May 11, 2005
    110,003
    49,984
    0
    Location:
    boston
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    Plug-in Base
    suspension shop?
     
  3. John in Vermont

    John in Vermont Junior Member

    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2018
    37
    15
    0
    Location:
    Rochester, Vermont
    Vehicle:
    2018 Prius c
    Model:
    Two
    Being it affects both wheels, I would suspect that the rear cross member has failed.
     
  4. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk EGR Fanatic

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2010
    56,571
    39,172
    80
    Location:
    Greater Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    Touring
    Take the wheel off, see if anything looks odd? <Sorry, see you've been there.

    Anyone else driving it?
     
    #4 Mendel Leisk, Sep 11, 2023
    Last edited: Sep 11, 2023
  5. sam spade 2

    sam spade 2 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2018
    7,035
    2,790
    0
    Location:
    USA
    Vehicle:
    2017 Prius c
    Model:
    Four
    How many thousands of pounds of cargo do you have in the trunk ? :)

    Some tire shops and many body shops likely can give you good analysis
    of what is causing this.
    probably something in the suspension going bad.
     
  6. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk EGR Fanatic

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2010
    56,571
    39,172
    80
    Location:
    Greater Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    Touring
    I've noticed some side-to-side disparity on our gen 3, doing the same test:

    Left side: 1/4"
    Right side: 1"

    My rough geometry calc with those measurements say we are outside spec, both for amount and disparity between sides. Still, tires are wearing ok, and it's been thus for years, so I leave it be.

    But over 2" (your case) is likely way out-of-spec (I don't have the specs for Prius c). Take it into dealership, get their opinion? Yeah I know...
     
  7. Corkles

    Corkles Junior Member

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2023
    7
    5
    0
    Location:
    Central, ky
    Vehicle:
    2014 Prius c
    Model:
    I
    I’ve had both wheels off and was looking underneath, from hub to hub. Looking for a smoking gun, and everything looks pretty decent. No rust or damage from contact with something. Being a torsion beam axle, I would think, given the extreme negative camber, I would be able to see an even slight twist in the beam. Looks pretty straight, though. Of course, that’s when the rear is raised up off the ground and everything dangling. Just don’t see anything damaged or bent or loose.
     
    bisco likes this.
  8. Corkles

    Corkles Junior Member

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2023
    7
    5
    0
    Location:
    Central, ky
    Vehicle:
    2014 Prius c
    Model:
    I
    IMG_0580.jpeg

    I’ve been driving it, I’m about the only that does. I’m the original owner, so I know the history. No wrecks or off-roading. Never really carry anything heavy, at least nothing heavier than the equivalent of three other passengers (I’m usually alone in it). Seems to actually drive OK. The driver rear started rubbing the strut/shock cover, so I quit driving it until I can figure something out. I ordered, what I hope are, the correct trailing arm bushings. If that doesn't fix it, I’ll probably have to take it to a shop. Maybe someone that sees this can help me figure it out.
     
  9. sam spade 2

    sam spade 2 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2018
    7,035
    2,790
    0
    Location:
    USA
    Vehicle:
    2017 Prius c
    Model:
    Four
    You often can get MUCH better service on things like this from a good body shop instead of a half-assed dealers shop.

    By a "good body shop" I mean one that is big enough to do things like frame straightening, not a guy down the street
    who paints cars in his back yard.
     
  10. Corkles

    Corkles Junior Member

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2023
    7
    5
    0
    Location:
    Central, ky
    Vehicle:
    2014 Prius c
    Model:
    I

    That’s a good point I haven’t considered, I’ll definitely think about going to a good body shop first, if I go anywhere. Thanks!
     
  11. Corkles

    Corkles Junior Member

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2023
    7
    5
    0
    Location:
    Central, ky
    Vehicle:
    2014 Prius c
    Model:
    I
    Here’s an update on my excessive camber issue. I removed the axle beam preparing to install new trailing arm bushings and after examining the beam itself, I found failing welds and rust on the driver side of the axle beam, where the trailing arm is welded to the beam. If you check out the images, in one, you can see a good size gap where the trailing arm meets the beam. The other image shows the passenger side trailing arm, and the welds are still intact. On a positive side note, even though there was destructive rust in that area, overall, corrosion on the body, mounts and fasteners wasn’t overwhelming. Everything came apart without much issue. I’m on the search for a rear axle beam. I’ve found a few but it’s quite a drive to reach them. If anybody has one, and is in KY somewhere, I may be interested in it.
     

    Attached Files:

    Mendel Leisk and bisco like this.
  12. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

    Joined:
    May 11, 2005
    110,003
    49,984
    0
    Location:
    boston
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    Plug-in Base
    glad you found it! i'm surprised you're getting so much rust in kentucky
     
  13. BiomedO1

    BiomedO1 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2021
    1,766
    897
    0
    Location:
    SacTown, Ca
    Vehicle:
    2021 Prius Prime
    Model:
    LE
    Man!! your lucky that wheel didn't fly off - going down the highway or on a hard turn. While the car's down; I'd probably rip into the other side and check it. Have you ever jacked the car up, one corner at a time - somehow placing enormous pressures on that part? It was probably a bad factory wield that was missed during QC.

    You should check online- junkyards and body parts stores. Since it's a chunk of metal, they should be able to ship it to you.
     
  14. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk EGR Fanatic

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2010
    56,571
    39,172
    80
    Location:
    Greater Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    Touring
    Again, if someone could come up with a non-corrosive snow melter, they'd deserve a Nobel Prize, or similar accolade. Besides automotive-specific concerns, dumping truckloads of salt in the environment ain't the greatest.

    Hey Musk, something worthwhile to get behind?
     
  15. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

    Joined:
    May 11, 2005
    110,003
    49,984
    0
    Location:
    boston
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    Plug-in Base
  16. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk EGR Fanatic

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2010
    56,571
    39,172
    80
    Location:
    Greater Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    Touring
    Sorry for the thread hijack, one more: sprinkle snow/ice with something more benign, and pitch black. To absorb sunlight, heat up. Dumb idea, especially at night, but something's gotta be better.
     
  17. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

    Joined:
    May 11, 2005
    110,003
    49,984
    0
    Location:
    boston
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    Plug-in Base
    pepper?
     
    Mendel Leisk likes this.
  18. Corkles

    Corkles Junior Member

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2023
    7
    5
    0
    Location:
    Central, ky
    Vehicle:
    2014 Prius c
    Model:
    I
    This is an update to me excessive negative camber issue. After looking at the beam closer, after I removed it, it appears my issue was specifically poor quality or bad weld where the trailing arm was welded to the beam. It looks like the original weld just didn't really penetrate enough. Like a bead was laid on top of the joint. I considered rewelding it, but I didn't really know if the dynamics of the alignment were permanently altered. I ended up replacing it and I think you Prius C people may find this interesting. I was searching junkyards for Prius C cars and the yards around me just don't have any. After looking around and doing some research I pulled one from a 2007 Yaris sedan, and it was a perfect match. My Prius C is a "one", so it's a base model with rear drum brakes. The Yaris also had rear drum brakes, but I'm not sure it would've made a difference. I was really surprised that both rear axle beams were essentially identical. mounting brackets and locations. It's back on the road, and, so far so good.

    image_67228929.JPG
     
    Mendel Leisk and BiomedO1 like this.
  19. BiomedO1

    BiomedO1 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2021
    1,766
    897
    0
    Location:
    SacTown, Ca
    Vehicle:
    2021 Prius Prime
    Model:
    LE
    Yes, the Yaris is compatible - international platform.

    If your into modifying your car, Lexus CT200H has rear disk brakes that your should be able to move over to your car.
    You can also just install the cruise control stalk and nip the plastic cover. You may also have to install a fuse too, to get cruise control working on your car.
     
    Roqu3 likes this.
  20. wr69

    wr69 Member

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2014
    141
    77
    0
    Location:
    portland, or
    Vehicle:
    2014 Prius
    Model:
    IV
    adding my two cents: Some people are using carpenter square at the tire base and measuring the offset in plumb by measuring from the top of the tire to the top of square. this is flawed as the tire bulges out at the bottom somewhat due to the weight of the car. You can move the square left or right of the wheel axle, away from the "bulge" for a more accurate measurement, even though this whole thing is a crude way to measure camber anyway!

    My crude measurements show about 1 degree of negative camber, which is surprisingly noticeable from about 20 feet behind the car and eyeballing it. This all started when I was very carefully inspecting my "new", used 2014, which I just picked up this week. I may take it in for a real alignment measurement, or just live with it. I will inspect the trailing arm beam though in the next day or so, even though I doubt it's a rust issue. But this thread was greatly appreciated!

    I'm just surprised at how visible to the naked eye 1 degree is! And both sides were roughly the same negative camber.

    For those wanting to actually measure this, the formula is something like this:

    camber = arctan (offset/height)

    So:

    1. offset = distance from top tire wall to top of square (very small number hopefully, like 1/4")
    2. height = distance from ground to the point you measured item 1. (around 17-19")
    3. divide those two numbers and then find the arctan of that, using a website like this:

    Arctan Calculator (math.net)

    PS - now I'm going to be eyeballing any other Gen3 Prius I see in the parking lot to get a sanity check!
     
    Mendel Leisk likes this.