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Head gasket change in action…no threads on timing chain?!? Help

Discussion in 'Gen 3 Prius Technical Discussion' started by Mellyman666, Sep 27, 2023.

  1. Mellyman666

    Mellyman666 Member

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    Hi!!
    I’m currently changing my head gaskets with your guy’s help and gasket masters youtube video! check my other post for reference!
    2010 Prius 3rd Gen.
    I’m currently at the timing chain part (sorry if my terms aren’t right, I’m a total noob at all of this), but the threads they show in the video…my timing chain doesn’t seem to have those, at all! I wanted to continue on but read it’s super important it’s at this in lock position before removing any bolts and stuff, so now I’m kind of stuck.
    Any help would be appreciated. Is this normal I can’t find these threads? I’ve seen a lot of differences with my car and the one they’re using on the video (and mine is in Canada so everything is 10x harder cause all rusted and stuck down with salt) but I feel like this isn’t one of those « it’s ok if my car doesn’t have the same thing as the one in the video » moments
     
  2. Mellyman666

    Mellyman666 Member

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  3. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    can you post the video, and the point at which they show/talk about the threads?
     
  4. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

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    I confess I am wondering just what you mean by threads.
     
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  5. Mpdcnva

    Mpdcnva Member

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    Ditto, do you mean the colored timing links? Or the dots on the gears? I do not understand threads. You need to remove the tensioner, harmonic balancer and the timing cover. Then you can line up the timing marks to move forward.
     
  6. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

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    Forums have “threads” too??
     
  7. Mellyman666

    Mellyman666 Member

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    By threads I meant the notch that lines up with the links. He called it threads at one point so I used that term lol

    in the end I ended up turning the harmonic balancer enough and found the notch, I thought there would be a lot of notches so was a little stressed, but false alarm. I finally made it down the the head gasket but def not sure if that is indeed the problem now, cause the actual head gasket looks fine. But then again I have no idea what a ruined head gasket should look like.
    I also broke one of the 10 « star » bolts holding the head and the engine together (I like in a very cold place and car has a lot of rust…I tried everything but it broke anyways). so wondering now if I should just leave it broken when I reassemble everything or will I need to remove more to get that 1 inch piece that’s left inside, out (check pic to understand what I mean)
     

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  8. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

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    Looks blown to me:
    upload_2023-9-28_16-8-47.png
    The holes between cylinders are coolant passages, and where the black layer is worn off coolant is able to seep into the cylinders:
    upload_2023-9-28_16-18-42.png
    One of the head bolts broke off? You definitely need to get that out. Gasket Masters thread "shocking the thread" discusses dealing with stuck bolts:

    And how to deal with broken off bolts:

    ^ You'd want to be real careful to not spill drill shavings into the cylinder when doing this. Maybe one person drilling, and another with a vacuum right beside it. Then use compressed air on the whole area.

    It "might" be worthwhile to get a mobile mechanic to do this?

    Towards the bottom of my signature there's a couple of head gasket related links. The GM video likely has the head bolt torque sequence/method, but might be some additional info, in the Repair Manual attachments.
     
    #8 Mendel Leisk, Sep 28, 2023
    Last edited: Sep 28, 2023
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  9. Mellyman666

    Mellyman666 Member

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    You're a life saver!!! I will watch all these tomorrow... for tonight I'm trying to just stick to my happines that as a girl with absolutely no experience as a mechanic made it this far! LOL
     
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  10. Mellyman666

    Mellyman666 Member

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    Also, I think coolant got into the chambers. Because if I wiped the excess liquid on top of the piston, it caused like bubbles (like when oil and water are mixed). Do I need to flush my engine out or something? There's also what I believe is coolant in the exterior part of the chambers (that little well around all 4 chambers). That's normal I think since coolant is supposed to go into that area....right ?
     
  11. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

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    Yeah those are coolant passages, maybe just residual.
     
  12. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

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    GM use reverse thread bits for the whole extraction process, but I think it’s more traditional to drill pilot hole with regular bit (turns clockwise) then switch to a special bolt extraction bit, which has aggressive reverse threads, with the drill set to counterclockwise. The latter drill set usually comes with a table, recommended pilot drill bit and extract bill bit diameters, for bolt diameter.

    it doesn’t hurt to start with even a smaller than recommended pilot drill bit, a little easier to control, avoid going off center.

    Really take your time with this; the last thing you want to do is chew up the threads of the head bolt hole.

    if it’s going off-the-rails, a mobile machine shop guy could be a godsend.
     
  13. Mellyman666

    Mellyman666 Member

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    oh this is stressful! I’ll definitely go slowly. i also read I should change the head bolts when changing the head gasket. Can the majority of the other bolts (not ones holding down engine parts) be reused if I remove all the rust from them? Any pieces that should 100% be replaced?
     
  14. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

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    As a DIY project probably safest to purchase new head bolts, just a better safe than sorry thing. There are specs for checking them though. In one of the head gasket links in my signature, in one of the repair manual excerpts linked.

    I forget what GM video says, but repair manual says oil-soak the head bolts before install, say plunk them all in a can of motor oil.
     
  15. rjparker

    rjparker Tu Humilde Sirviente

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    Head bolt installation followed by timing chain and cover installations are very critical. Use of a proper torque wrench followed by further angle tightening can save a second head gasket fail and the need for proper timing is obvious but too often messed up. The timing chain cover sealant is also critical to avoid oil leaks and rework.
     
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  16. xliderider

    xliderider Senior Member

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    How many miles/kilometers on the odometer?

    Is anything being done to address the pistons and rings? The rings are probably seized due to carbon buildup, which lead to oil burning, and more carbon buildup, etc.

    Severe cases can have scored cylinder walls and severe oil burning issues. If the cylinder walls are scored then doing a head gasket alone is a waste of time and money.

    Posted via the PriusChat mobile app.
     
  17. Mellyman666

    Mellyman666 Member

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    That was actually my next question( of how I can assure there’s nothing more severe wrong with engine before wasting time with head gasket change). Any place I can see how to evaluate these things?
     
  18. Mellyman666

    Mellyman666 Member

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    Yes I read at many places about the timing belt being the biggest challenge so I hope it will go well!
     
  19. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

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    You can crank the pistons by putting a socket on the bolt* on the end of the crankshaft (through passenger side wheel well), and turning (clockwise?), which can move the pistons up/down, to check for scoring on cylinder walls. Also, when the various piston come up to Top Dead Centre (TDC), you can check that none of them are lower than the others. This is a rough check for piston arm being bent (due to hydrolock, which can occur due to sufficient uncompressible coolant in cylinder).

    * Is that bolt removed right now? Could be temporarily reinstalled.
     
  20. ASRDogman

    ASRDogman Senior Member

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    Don't stress. If you go slowly, take photos/videos and you'll be find. Go ONE step at a time.
    The head bolts are inexpensive, worth changing. You could measure them all, the are stretch bolts,
    and need to be withing a certain amount to reuse them.
    Every other bolt can be resused. Unless the are damaged of course.
    All gaskets should be replaced. They come in the FULL head gasket kit.

    The timing "chain", not belt, is really not difficult. Again, if you go slowly.
    If you set the cams on there marks, and the crank is at tdc for #1.
    There are 3 marks on the chain that line up on the 2 cam sprockets and one on the crankshaft.
    "Almost" impossible to get wrong.

    The timing cover is the trickiest to install. It's a tight fit and a little hard to align. Do NOT try to
    force it into place! Go SLOW, try to get it aligned and ease it into place. Have bolt Toyota says
    to install to hold it in place. Then install the others and torque them down. Follow the procedure
    for tightening them and you won't have a problem. And intall the Toyota silicone like they show.
    It won't hurt to be a "little" extra especially where the head sits on the block and the block and oil
    pain fit together.