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Winston 12V 40Ah LFP battery, good or bad idea???

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Accessories & Modifications' started by Isaac Zachary, Oct 2, 2023.

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  1. Isaac Zachary

    Isaac Zachary Senior Member

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    I need a 12V battery for the 2006 Prius. My thoughts are either go with a battery from Toyota, or I'd like to try lithium ferrous phosphate (LFP, AKA: LiFePO4).

    I found a 40Ah one from a brand named Winston that looks to be very similar in size to the Prius battery. However, one of my concerns is cold weather. With Lead Acid (LA) you don't want to let the battery drain or it can freeze and even rupture. But since a car ususally will keep the battery topped off, this may not be a problem. LFP's, though, usually are damaged from cold weather, mainly when charged (discharging might not affect them in freezing weather). But Winston advertises they can work in -40 °F (-40 °C) weather without damage by means of a special chemistry. And we sometimes see weather down to -40 °F (-40 °C) around here on occasion, although not as often as in the past. I am contemplating getting a battery warmer too, just because. Also, being more inside the cabin, as opposed to being under a hood, seems like a better place to keep it above freezing during a sunny day, right? Or am I wrong?

    Am I right about dimmensions too?
    OEM:
    220mm x 235mm x 127mm

    Winston:
    225mm x 208mm x 125mm

    The Winston is also about $239, before tax and shipping. I'm sure there are cheaper options out there, but this is the only LFP advertised to work in the cold. Any thoughts on if I'd just be better off with an LA?

    One reason I like the idea of LFP is I'm also into amateur radio. If I get a radio into this car, having more usable Ah's would be important. This is also my second car, and depending on how it goes, I might get an LFP for the Avalon hybrid, which does have a 100W HF/VHF/UHF transceiver installed. LFP also keeps the voltage closer to 13.8V, the perfect voltage for a typical transceiver, and it can do that without the aid of potentially noisy voltage converters. This is why LTO wouldn't seem like a good alternative.
     
  2. Isaac Zachary

    Isaac Zachary Senior Member

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    P.S. I do have a battery capacity meter so as to test how well this thing does in the long run.
     
  3. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    in your circumstances, i would install the cheapest battery i could find
     
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  4. bcmanucd

    bcmanucd Junior Member

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    I just finished installing a 50Ah LiFePO4 that I bought on Amazon for $130 (I can't post links until I've made 4 posts, but search Amazon for LGECOLFP 12V 50Ah Lithium Battery). It was a tight squeeze, but I got it to fit with a longer bolt for the battery clamp. Here are the dimensions that I measured:
    Toyota TrueStart B24 battery - 45Ah: 9 1/4" (234mm) L x 4 7/8" (124mm) W x 7 7/8" (200mm) H (not including posts)
    LGECOLFP 12V 50 Ah LiFePO4 battery: 9" (229mm) L x 5 3/8" (137mm) W x 8 1/4" (211mm) H (not including posts)
    The original battery weighed 28 lbs, while the new one is 11 lbs. And while the rated Ah is only slightly higher (50 vs 45), if you regularly drain a lead acid battery below 50% capacity, you dramatically reduce the lifespan. LiFePO4 can be drained to 10-20% SOC with no ill effects.
    I started by loosening the 2 bolts on the black bracket and sliding it all the way outward to make sure I have every millimeter of width:
    upload_2023-11-5_19-49-4.png
    Even so, the battery got wedged between the body and this bracket, and the clamp had to pull it all the way down.
    upload_2023-11-5_19-49-20.png
    upload_2023-11-5_19-49-28.png
    I put a longer M6 bolt on the left side of the clamp, with about 10mm of washers underneath to give the bolt something to tighten onto.

    I also had to modify the battery terminal attachments of the car. The battery comes with M8 femaie-threaded holes, and I couldn't find anything on amazon that would adapt that to the tapered posts of the OEM battery. Instead, I removed the post clamp from the positive side of the fuse block thingy and just put an M8 bolt through it into the battery. That side was easy. On the negative side, I removed the bolt and nut from the clamp and enlarged the hole from the bolt to 5/16" so that it could fit an M8 bolt. I also had to do a little bending of the tabs that come out at right angles on the edges of that clamp to clear the battery post and bolt head, but it worked and I got about 4 1/2 threads of engagement. I'm confident these mods could be reversed if I go back to an OEM battery.
    upload_2023-11-5_19-50-25.png
    So far, so good! The car started up normally and drove fine for the first day. I'll post a follow-up after I've had it for a few months.

    I'm not too worried about the low temperature charging limit where I live, as it rarely gets below freezing. I think charging below freezing once or twice won't kill a LiFePO4, but if it were a regular occurrence it might. I'm not sure you'd get much protection from it being inside the car, either, as it's in a pocket that's surrounded by the outside on 5 sides, with just think sheet metal separating it from the outside temps. a battery warming pad might be a good idea, but if you're powering it from the same battery, it could drain the battery if left for a few nights. What would be really slick is a controller that takes the charging current and feeds it to the battery if it's above 32°F, or to the warming pad if it's below 32°F.

    One other thing to note: The battery I bought has a BMS (battery management system) that can only output 50A of current. The battery I took out is labeled 325 CCA (cold cranking amps). That had me worried, so I measured the current into and out of the battery at startup. I saw a peak of 40A to close the contactor for the traction battery, but just for a second, then a steady flow of around 20A back into the battery.
     
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  5. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    That looks good, all the best!