1. Attachments are working again! Check out this thread for more details and to report any other bugs.

Engine knock from only slight oil loss?

Discussion in 'Gen 3 Prius Care, Maintenance & Troubleshooting' started by woody23, Nov 15, 2023.

  1. woody23

    woody23 Junior Member

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2016
    56
    16
    0
    Location:
    Nebraska
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    IV
    My 2010 IV with 191k miles burns about 1-1.5 quarters every 5k miles. I check it every month and more frequently when the next oil change is coming due. I've experienced engine knocks on startup before, the previous 2-3 winters, but only a couple of times per winter on average (very cold temps).

    A few days ago, though, I experienced one in 55 degree weather, marking the first time in non-winter conditions. Very strong knock that lasted 15-20 seconds.

    I checked the oil and it was slightly low, in between the 2 dots exactly. I put 250ml in and let it be. Started it the next morning and there was a knock again, 5 seconds or so. I then drove the car a mile to get things moving. Next morning, no more knock. And no knock today on start.

    Checking my oil and seeing it slightly down and topping it off is a normal occurrence for me, so I'm wondering why this time it produced a strong engine knock? And is this a sign of bad things to come?

    I did full EGR cleaning 18 months ago.
     
  2. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2010
    55,424
    38,653
    80
    Location:
    Greater Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    Touring
    That's very late in the day. How's the engine coolant level in the reservoir? I'd do head gasket test, boroscope inspection of the cylinders (preferably with cooling system pressurized, looking for coolant tears getting past the head gasket) and/or leak down test (air pressurizing individual cylinders with a special gauge set, seeing how well they hold pressure, and if they leak, where).

    New short block is about $2K. If the cylinder walls are in good shape then just the revised pistons/rings would be cheaper. Part no's for the pistons/rings in attached.
     

    Attached Files:

    woody23 likes this.
  3. Tombukt2

    Tombukt2 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2020
    8,929
    1,553
    0
    Location:
    Durham NC
    Vehicle:
    2009 Prius
    Model:
    Base
    Pull the plugs smell them look at them with a small loop or good magnification glasses and look for vaporized drops of water or vapor drops on your plugs that will be coming from your engine The only water or that kind of liquid in your engine is in the radiator and the cooling system Stick your tongue to the spark plug you'll taste the glycol if you know what that tastes like It generally you'll be on one and two and not three and four If you have these conditions then your engine is heading to toast just plain and simple that's it If you can verify that you have this knocking going on and it is not because water is putting the fire out like on my 2013 then when this is happening and you're standing outside the car all the noise will be coming right where the engine and transmission mate up. It will be very distinctive You will see your engine running you put your hand on and it doesn't miss a beat but then you hear this clank clank clank clank which is not the springs on the damper plate being jammed to their end of travel because of the fire getting put out and the engine missing. It is something similar but it's not that and now you're transmission has to come out for inspecting that torque plate and it's flywheel looking mating partner and if that all checks out then the output shaft of the transmission needs to be checked and possibly open that up to see if any bushings or bearings or what have you have failed on any of the shafts of the motors or however all that works in there mine is not clunking due to the head gasket that was just fixed and it's been fine for months now I have this clanking and it is not due to ignition or misfiring so I have to pull the transmission to have a look If yours is similar to this and you've done all the other stuff above and you don't have any glycol in your oil and on your plugs then you're probably looking at similar Good luck.
     
    woody23 likes this.
  4. woody23

    woody23 Junior Member

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2016
    56
    16
    0
    Location:
    Nebraska
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    IV
    Engine coolant level is normal and was changed 4 months ago. I did 2 cans of Techron last spring back to back.
     
    Mendel Leisk likes this.
  5. Tombukt2

    Tombukt2 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2020
    8,929
    1,553
    0
    Location:
    Durham NC
    Vehicle:
    2009 Prius
    Model:
    Base
    So I'm guessing you've changed the spark plugs at some point If you have not now's a good time to loosen up the windshield tray and get the plugs out keep them in order of where they came from look at one and two especially closely see the little water droplets they're real small take your finger and touch those water droppers and touch it to your tongue or smell it It smells like glycol smell your antifreeze bottle to get an idea of that smell but smell the oil or spark plug first or touch it to your finger then to your tongue then smell the coolant however you do it If you have traces of glycol on one and two they're in lies your problem it's starting to seep through the head gasket and get into your bores or your cylinders.
     
  6. PriusCamper

    PriusCamper Senior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2012
    11,063
    4,504
    0
    Location:
    Pacific Northwest, USA
    Vehicle:
    2007 Prius
    Model:
    Two
    The atkinson engine is known to have this problem occassionaly and it doesn't mean anything is wrong... Soon as you hear a sucking sound when you open the coolant reservoir you'll have the same problem that all gen3 Prius owners have to deal with. But until that time, you got nothing to worry about and the car is very reliable, though those high MPG piston rings wear out early which is what you're in the first stage of.
     
    woody23 likes this.
  7. woody23

    woody23 Junior Member

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2016
    56
    16
    0
    Location:
    Nebraska
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    IV
    I changed them at 120k miles, so it's been about 71k miles on the current set. I was thinking about doing it before 200k again.
     
  8. woody23

    woody23 Junior Member

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2016
    56
    16
    0
    Location:
    Nebraska
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    IV
    I've not heard of that test but I'm not a mechanic. I can go open the engine coolant cap right now and if I hear a strong sucking sound, I know I'm in trouble?
     
  9. PriusCamper

    PriusCamper Senior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2012
    11,063
    4,504
    0
    Location:
    Pacific Northwest, USA
    Vehicle:
    2007 Prius
    Model:
    Two
    The sucking sound means you're losing coolant... Perfectly normal for a Gen3 Prius' bad design... You can sometimes go years with this tiny head gasket leak. Fortunately for your that you live close to Oklahoma where Drew Griffin will put a gen4 engine in your Prius in your driveway in one day for $1500: https://www.instagram.com/skimmilkhybrid/
     
  10. woody23

    woody23 Junior Member

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2016
    56
    16
    0
    Location:
    Nebraska
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    IV
    I haven't done that test yet, but if I only hear a slight de-pressurization sound, that's not the same thing, right?

    Thanks for the link, I'll keep this in my back pocket if things turn for the worse. Car appears to be back to normal, for now.
     
  11. rjparker

    rjparker Tu Humilde Sirviente

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2008
    7,918
    4,680
    7
    Location:
    Texas Hill Country
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius v wagon
    Model:
    Three
    This is the definitive early test if the borescope is multiview and used properly. Catching a hg early might save the engine instead of allowing it to simply run longterm when it’s really bad and obvious to anyone.

    Use of a borescope
    Car Care Nut HG Borescope at 7:40

     
    woody23 likes this.
  12. PriusCamper

    PriusCamper Senior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2012
    11,063
    4,504
    0
    Location:
    Pacific Northwest, USA
    Vehicle:
    2007 Prius
    Model:
    Two
    Like I said... You have lots of time... But the option of buying a used gen4 engine for $1800 and only having to pay $1500 for an installation eliminates future headgasket and oil burning piston ring issues forever. Way more cost effective if you want to be driving the same Prius 200K miles from now. And if that's not your plan, sooner you can sell it the better!
     
    woody23 likes this.
  13. woody23

    woody23 Junior Member

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2016
    56
    16
    0
    Location:
    Nebraska
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    IV


    Hey Mendel,

    The issue now is a subtle knock still exists on most starts, and I'm wondering whether or not I can get through the long winter with it in it's current state.

    Few questions for you:

    So I can get one of these boroscopes off Amazon for $20-$30 and pull the spark plugs and look at the cylinders and see if they are clean or dirty to get a basic idea? The pressurized stuff with the gauge set sounds over my head.

    Do you know how much a dealer would charge for these revised pistons/rings installed? Roughly?

    Would it be worth it switching from 87 octane to 92? What about another bottle of Techron for the fuel injectors?
     
  14. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2010
    55,424
    38,653
    80
    Location:
    Greater Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    Touring
    Maybe have an independent mechanic (one that works cheaper) do this.

    the video in post #11 may include some comment on cylinder wall condition. I believe you’re looking for “scuffing” on the cylinder wall cross-hatch.
    Ask some. You likely should be sitting down.
    Snake oil.
     
    woody23 likes this.