1. Attachments are working again! Check out this thread for more details and to report any other bugs.

Tow truck coming in the morning

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Care, Maintenance and Troubleshooting' started by 16 yrs & counting, Apr 13, 2024.

  1. 16 yrs & counting

    16 yrs & counting Junior Member

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2020
    37
    15
    0
    Location:
    Oakton, VA
    Vehicle:
    2004 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    Caveat: I'm not as mechanically savvy as most Prius Chat users so please go easy on me!

    My 04 Prius with 172K miles has been running rough and giving me the red triangle of death, so I had the error codes read and was told I needed 2-3 new ignition coils.

    I bought four ignition coils on Amazon, we watched a video on YouTube about how to change them, and my BF did that -- only to have the car start but then immediately die.

    (A year ago, he changed out my spark plugs, which requires removing the ignition coils to get at the spark plugs, so he'd done this before.)

    So we took out the 4 new ignition coils and put the old ones back in, only to have it then not run at all! I got a big "Problem" banner on my dashboard screen and, although dashboard lights came on, it didn't turn over and I can't put it into gear. When I tried to put it into reverse, it ended up in neutral. I could hear a fan running in the back passenger side, which I've never heard before.

    A tow truck is coming in the morning and I'll have it taken to a shop for diagnosis. Any idea what I might be facing? Thanks for any help you can offer.
     
  2. Tombukt2

    Tombukt2 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2020
    8,222
    1,427
    0
    Location:
    Durham NC
    Vehicle:
    2009 Prius
    Model:
    Base
    You should have some bad battery trouble code stored with the plethora of dash lights that you speak of on your dash so they'll be a bunch of them The fan running constantly in the back that you're now hearing indicates that the battery ECU is not happy generally meaning a very old and failing hybrid battery pack. That causes a lot of other problems four new ignition coils even of questionable origin should work long enough for a little bit of driving so there's always that your battery may be so far down and the attempts to move and use the car was it not being able to start is just flattened everything.
     
  3. 16 yrs & counting

    16 yrs & counting Junior Member

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2020
    37
    15
    0
    Location:
    Oakton, VA
    Vehicle:
    2004 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    Thanks for the reply. Does not sound good.
     
  4. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

    Joined:
    May 11, 2005
    107,900
    49,049
    0
    Location:
    boston
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    Plug-in Base
    there are a lot of chinese counterfeit parts on amazon
     
  5. 16 yrs & counting

    16 yrs & counting Junior Member

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2020
    37
    15
    0
    Location:
    Oakton, VA
    Vehicle:
    2004 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    I included a link to the actual item on Amazon in my post, but then got a message that I'm not allowed to use links. Anyway, these ignition coils had lots of positive reviews, with an average review on a 5-point scale of 4.4, with 344 ratings.

    The name on Amazon is:
    SCITOO 100% New 4pcs Ignition Coil Set Compatible for Scion xA/xB for Toyota Echo/for Prius/for Prius C/for Yaris 2000-2019 Automobiles Fit for OE: UF316 5C1293

    Hopefully a bad ignition coil did not fry my HV battery.

    Still waiting for a diagnosis from the auto repair shop.
     
    bisco likes this.
  6. Leadfoot J. McCoalroller

    Leadfoot J. McCoalroller Senior Member

    Joined:
    May 12, 2018
    6,857
    6,494
    1
    Location:
    Pennsylvania
    Vehicle:
    2018 Prius c
    Model:
    Two
    A bad coil can't fry your HV battery. Battery is plenty old enough to have gone on its own. Get rid of those coils though, they really won't last.
     
    Danno5060 likes this.
  7. 16 yrs & counting

    16 yrs & counting Junior Member

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2020
    37
    15
    0
    Location:
    Oakton, VA
    Vehicle:
    2004 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    Got the bad news today from the shop: they found 28 error codes, including one for the hybrid battery. Toyota dealership quoted me $3,500 parts and labor, but there are also places like Green Bean battery and Greentec who will install a "reconditioned" battery with a lifetime warranty for $1900.

    My concern is all those other error codes; I don't want to replace the battery only to find that I also need, for example, a new inverter.
     
  8. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

    Joined:
    May 11, 2005
    107,900
    49,049
    0
    Location:
    boston
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    Plug-in Base
    was that to fix everything?
     
  9. 16 yrs & counting

    16 yrs & counting Junior Member

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2020
    37
    15
    0
    Location:
    Oakton, VA
    Vehicle:
    2004 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    No, $3500 is just for a new hybrid battery. I asked the garage to email me the code and they refused, but I'm gonna call the garage back tomorrow to get them to read them to me over the phone. I need to know everything that's wrong in order to decide if it's worth fixing.
     
    Danno5060 and bisco like this.
  10. TMR-JWAP

    TMR-JWAP Senior Member

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2016
    6,107
    5,819
    0
    Location:
    Columbia, SC
    Vehicle:
    2007 Prius
    Model:
    Touring
    I'm going to throw it out there that it's more likely you had a failure to start ( a few times) and drained the HV battery from too many failed attempts. Solve the reason for the failure to start. Disconnect the 12v battery for a minute to reset the computers and it will likely give you another shot at starting the engine. If it starts, it will recharge the HV battery.

    If your original problem was multiple misfires, it's very UNLIKELY to be caused by multiple coils failing. That just doesn't happen. More likely a problem with MAF or throttle body, a large vacuum leak, or even something as silly as running out of fuel (I've seen this). This is probably a very easy repair for someone who understands the Gen 2. Too bad you're not near Columbia. I could probably have you up and going in an hour or less...

    When you first turn on the car, the HV battery applies power to the transaxle to spin the engine for up to 10ish seconds. It spins it fast enough that most people think the engine is actually running, but it's really not. The car can try multiple times, but each time, it drains the HV battery more, until it gets below its trigger threshold and codes out. The good thing about the Toyota setup is that the battery typically has enough reserve that resetting the computers by disconnecting the 12v battery can save your butt. Restarting the computer resets all the codes and the computer goes to a default value for HV battery state of charge, ~60%, letting it think it's well above the low trigger setpoint.
     
    #10 TMR-JWAP, Apr 18, 2024
    Last edited: Apr 18, 2024
  11. 16 yrs & counting

    16 yrs & counting Junior Member

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2020
    37
    15
    0
    Location:
    Oakton, VA
    Vehicle:
    2004 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    Thanks for your suggestion. It's hard to have a dialog when my comments stay in moderation for such a long time. I can see that my comment from 13 hours ago is still awaiting moderation.
     
  12. 16 yrs & counting

    16 yrs & counting Junior Member

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2020
    37
    15
    0
    Location:
    Oakton, VA
    Vehicle:
    2004 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    We tried your idea -- disconnected the battery for 5 min and then reconnected it--but car still won't start. Probably having it towed to the Toyota dealership tomorrow.

    Thanks for the suggestion! I see that my comment from last night was deleted, perhaps because I mentioned a few places that sell reconditioned batteries by name.
     
  13. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

    Joined:
    May 11, 2005
    107,900
    49,049
    0
    Location:
    boston
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    Plug-in Base
    it's unlikely the car has 28 codes. the garage probably didn't have a proper code reader for a prius. dealer will have it.
     
  14. Leadfoot J. McCoalroller

    Leadfoot J. McCoalroller Senior Member

    Joined:
    May 12, 2018
    6,857
    6,494
    1
    Location:
    Pennsylvania
    Vehicle:
    2018 Prius c
    Model:
    Two
    Eh, a car like a Prius can have an astoundingly long list of codes for not too many actual things wrong.

    My car had 6 codes on it yesterday that all came from a single failed part, just for instance.

    @16 yrs & counting your post count should have you into free posting by now, congrats!
     
  15. rjparker

    rjparker Tu Humilde Sirviente

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2008
    7,638
    4,480
    7
    Location:
    Texas Hill Country
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius v wagon
    Model:
    Three
    First mistake is taking if to a conventional shop for diagnosis. Most can’t do it.

    A Toyota dealer will diagnose it correctly. As stated above you problem is likely to be engine first, hv battery second and perhaps the 12v is drained as well.

    Once you get an accurate diagnosis find an independent hybrid shop and take it there.
     
  16. pasadena_commut

    pasadena_commut Senior Member

    Joined:
    May 2, 2019
    1,363
    413
    0
    Location:
    Southern California
    Vehicle:
    2007 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    Didn't we have another thread like this a while back where it turned out the work on the coils/plugs had broken the connection to one or more fuel injectors? As I recall that also resulted in a poor run or no run condition.

    Many of the people on this forum have replaced a bad pack with an OEM one themselves, with the OEM pack costing <= $2K from the dealer (shop around, prices vary dealer to dealer, with a large refundable core charge). Best done with two people because the pack is a bit heavy and large to move easily by oneself. Be aware that this battery swap involves replacing a container holding all new modules but reusing the original electronics (found on the driver's side of the battery). It isn't like swapping the battery on a computer, where the whole pack is replaced. For $3500 at the dealer you get all the labor and a year longer warranty. If the BF works on cars regularly he probably already has the tools needed except possibly a torque wrench in the inch-lb range. The new pack comes with all new cables, and the only bad surprise one is likely to run into is that some battery ECUs (which carries over from the previous battery) have been found to be damaged when corrosion propagated in from the cable (a new cable is provided with the new pack). Presumably if the dealer finds that issue there will be a separate charge for a new ECU. Of course a 2nd car will be needed to fetch the pack if the Prius won't run, and it needs a hatchback/wagon's worth of cargo capacity because the pack in its shipping container is pretty large.
     
  17. 16 yrs & counting

    16 yrs & counting Junior Member

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2020
    37
    15
    0
    Location:
    Oakton, VA
    Vehicle:
    2004 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    Thanks for your comment, although most of it is over my head. BF said that there is a YouTube video showing how someone replaced a Prius HV battery, but he isn't willing to try it, I believe due to the risk of electrocution. I was told that the batteries are shipped fully charged. How much does it weigh? I don't know if I would be able to help him lift/carry it.

    He does a lot of work on his own cars (Mercedes and Mazda) and on my car has replaced the muffler, the catalytic converter after it was stolen, the spark plugs, the brakes, the 12 Volt battery, and fixed the AC when it stopped cooling.

    Interesting about work on the coils breaking the connection to the fuel injectors. I'd like to read that thread so will try searching.

    Yesterday was an all-day ordeal to get it towed 4 miles from C & C Garage in Vienna, Va to the Toyota dealership, using State Farm's roadside assistance. I got a text at 8:30 am saying the tow truck driver had been dispatched and would arrive in 30-60 min, and he marked himself as "onsite" an hour later, but actually didn't arrive until 1 pm and couldn't put the car into neutral so unable to tow. Another tow truck was dispatched at 1:30 pm, but he also did nothing, claiming, unbelievably, that he was unable to find a white Prius at a small repair shop with about 15 cars in the lot and staff in the office. So in exasperation I finally called a tow service directly and it was towed by 5:30 pm. State Farm roadside assistance is apparently completely worthless.

    Now it's at the dealership, and their shop foreman owns three Prius and has replaced the HV battery in all of them. Two have over 200K miles on them and one has over 300K miles, so he should be able to figure out what's wrong with my car.
     
    #17 16 yrs & counting, Apr 20, 2024
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2024
  18. 16 yrs & counting

    16 yrs & counting Junior Member

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2020
    37
    15
    0
    Location:
    Oakton, VA
    Vehicle:
    2004 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    Here's the diagnosis:

    It def needs a new battery, 2 of the cells are bad (out of 128), one of them is really bad. Also needs a Hybrid Control Computer, which has been discontinued, would have to get from salvage and they run about $600.

    The misfires could be coming from the engine, he could run a compression test if I want.

    Surprisingly, he was able to drive it around the building; yesterday they couldn’t even get it into neutral at C&C! Does not recommend driving it on road however.

    He didn’t mention anything about the inverter and I forgot to ask. He had said earlier that it would be unusual for it to go out on a 2004. He saw no error codes related to ignition coils.

    He said he wouldn’t put much money into it, being 20 years old, and it has other issues, such as the “sway bar links” are loose and making noise.

    He said that if it was his car he would rebuild the HV battery using one of the solo mechanics nearby who can do it for about $600, and then, if I get a “communication error code,” (gearshift indicator will start blinking) also replace the Hybrid Control Computer, and then drive it till it dies, which could be a year or 5 years.
     
  19. rjparker

    rjparker Tu Humilde Sirviente

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2008
    7,638
    4,480
    7
    Location:
    Texas Hill Country
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius v wagon
    Model:
    Three
    The “solo” guy could have a helper or two and still qualify.

    A lot depends on your finances and willingness to put up with pesky problems several times a year. An old Prius can cost way more to keep on the road than an old conventional Corolla, Camry or Civic. If you can swing a 2017 or newer Toyota hybrid, excluding a Prius v, you get gen4 efficiency and reliability.
     
  20. 16 yrs & counting

    16 yrs & counting Junior Member

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2020
    37
    15
    0
    Location:
    Oakton, VA
    Vehicle:
    2004 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    I probably am willing to put with pesky problems, since I drive very little and BF can fix most issues.

    A lot will depend on whether I can find a solo mechanic who seems trustworthy to replace the battery.