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Discussion in 'Prius, Hybrid, EV and Alt-Fuel News' started by Gokhan, Dec 17, 2023.

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  1. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    We have a whole thread on this crash.
    Ford’s hands-free BlueCruise system was active before fatal Texas crash | PriusChat

    In short we have no details to say what exactly happened. The system could have seen the stopped car, started braking, and still that not be enough to prevent a crash when starting at 80+mph.
     
    #141 Trollbait, Apr 24, 2024
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  2. hill

    hill High Fiber Member

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    ... "oh - no, i don't have Tesla derangement syndrome ... i just post random news links in my feed .... hee hee hee"
    & yet - quick to come to the defense of other manufacturers
    LOL
    .
     
    #142 hill, Apr 24, 2024
  3. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    Should be, but not the reality. There’s too much money chasing too few companies
     
    #143 bisco, Apr 24, 2024
  4. fuzzy1

    fuzzy1 Senior Member

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    While this would be a clear failure in a true self-driving system, technically for an ADAS-only system, this might be countable as a "success", for slowing enough to significantly reduce overall injuries or fatalities. These ADAS systems don't "promise" crash- or injury-free performance, merely a reduction in severity. Preventing a decently high fraction of crashes entirely, is a bonus.

    If this saved one life in a potentially multi-fatality event, then "it worked!" "... the driver of the Mustang sustained “minor injuries.”"

    This also highlights a critical distinction between ADAS-only, and Full True Self Driving. We are still at just the former stage, not the later.
     
    #144 fuzzy1, Apr 24, 2024
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  5. Leadfoot J. McCoalroller

    Leadfoot J. McCoalroller Senior Member

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    When the trooper arrests the car instead of its driver, we'll be there.
     
    #145 Leadfoot J. McCoalroller, Apr 24, 2024
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  6. Gokhan

    Gokhan Senior Member

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    DRCC is not self-driving. If AEB is disabled while using DRCC, the vehicle shouldn't be expected to suddenly stop if another vehicle appears in the way all of a sudden.

    As I replied to @sylvaing:

    DRCC is not self-driving. If AEB is disabled while using DRCC, the vehicle shouldn't be expected to suddenly stop if another vehicle appears in the way all of a sudden.

    I know this is the case, as in my car with TSS 2.0, DRCC does not slow down if someone merges all of a sudden in front of you. Part of the reason for this is that DRCC is a slow-responding system by design, as a fast response would result in erratic driving. You need AEB (and/or yourself) to prevent or mitigate a crash—a fast-responding system.

    Also, I know that the rear corner radars of my 2021 Prius Prime Limited see bicycles riding by. Therefore, the radar would be able to see the motorcycle unless it wasn't programmed properly. I am not sure if AEB only uses the camera, but since it detects pedestrians (at least in TSS 2.0 and above), it should detect motorcycles.
     
    #146 Gokhan, Apr 24, 2024
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 26, 2024
  7. sylvaing

    sylvaing Active Member

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    Like I mentioned earlier, radar based object detection is unable to differentiate parked objects from ground clutter. In a level 2 ADAS, the driver still has to monitor the road ahead. In the Ford accident, a witness stated that she saw the parked car and steered to avoid it, so an alert driver using a level 2 ADAS should have been able to do the same.
     
    #147 sylvaing, Apr 24, 2024
  8. Gokhan

    Gokhan Senior Member

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    But the AEB would use the camera if it were activated.

    Moreover, as I said, DRCC is a slow-responding system by design to prevent erratic driving and will not respond in emergencies.
     
    #148 Gokhan, Apr 24, 2024
    Last edited: Apr 24, 2024
  9. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    Just drove ~150 miles back to Huntsville on FSD 2024.3.15:
    • Turkey buzzards at squirrel roadkill - three birds about the size of a turkey were on the road, The car smoothly slowed down and two never even took flight. When they cleared my lane, the car slowly moved forward and did not startle the two still on the ground on either side of the road. They were about the size of the 'child' doll Dan O'Dowd ran down several years ago.
    • Multi-lane left turns - perfect including when the driver to my left decided to change into my lane.
    • Navigation speed changes - still exist and appear to be navigation map defects. But they are 'softer' giving more time to correct with the accelerator.
    • Early lane choice and change when approaching a navigation turn.
    • Less nags, a lot of hands off time.
    Bob Wilson
     
    #149 bwilson4web, Apr 25, 2024
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  10. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    It is pure speculation on your part that the AEB was turned off. I brought up why the system could have been working perfectly, and still crashed in the other thread.

    My DRCC will apply the brakes to slow down, and does so without all the AEB warnings.
     
    #150 Trollbait, Apr 25, 2024
  11. Gokhan

    Gokhan Senior Member

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    Of course it is speculation whether AEB was on or off.

    Nevertheless, your statement is entirely false. DRCC will not slow down in an emergency. It is a slow-responding system. This (turning AEB off with DRCC) was a big part of the new IIHS ADAS safety-guard ratings, which you are not aware of or forgot about.
     
    #151 Gokhan, Apr 25, 2024
  12. sylvaing

    sylvaing Active Member

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    Which, personally I find stupid if true, especially if the car in "DRCC" won't react fast enough to prevent a collision!
     
    #152 sylvaing, Apr 25, 2024
  13. Gokhan

    Gokhan Senior Member

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    So, you know better than the IIHS safety engineers, who dedicate their careers on this?
     
    #153 Gokhan, Apr 25, 2024
  14. sylvaing

    sylvaing Active Member

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    Or your missing some other factors because it sound stupid.
     
    #154 sylvaing, Apr 25, 2024
  15. Gokhan

    Gokhan Senior Member

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    Why don't you actually read the very scientifically written IIHS document on this instead of using your gut feelings?
     
    #155 Gokhan, Apr 25, 2024
  16. sylvaing

    sylvaing Active Member

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    Do you have a link?
     
    #156 sylvaing, Apr 25, 2024
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  17. Gokhan

    Gokhan Senior Member

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    #157 Gokhan, Apr 25, 2024
  18. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    And there is a separate thread for discussing this case with Ford.

    Is there a regulation stating all DRCCs have to behave the same way? Have you used DRCC in a newer Subaru?
     
    #158 Trollbait, Apr 25, 2024
  19. sylvaing

    sylvaing Active Member

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    I wonder where you got the idea that AEB must not be on when DRCC is active from this...

    AEB must be on while the partially automated system is on. For test 10c, systems should not activate
    when AEB is off or AEB must automatically reactivate when partially automated systems are turned on.

    When the partially automated system is on, the driver cannot deactivate AEB (Test 10e)
     
    #159 sylvaing, Apr 25, 2024
  20. Gokhan

    Gokhan Senior Member

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    You misunderstood it. What you quoted is how IIHS expected the system to be for them to give it a good rating—it is not what they found in their tests. Most (almost all) systems they tested got a poor rating because AEB could be disabled with DRCC on.
     
    #160 Gokhan, Apr 25, 2024
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