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Tow truck coming in the morning

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Care, Maintenance and Troubleshooting' started by 16 yrs & counting, Apr 13, 2024.

  1. 16 yrs & counting

    16 yrs & counting Junior Member

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    Should I get my battery reconditioned instead? There must be a reason why that hasn't been suggested.
     
  2. rjparker

    rjparker Tu Humilde Sirviente

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    Reconditioned means used with several of the 28 modules replaced for better used modules. You get a better price with lower reliability. Most of the pack will still be real old while some modules will be slightly newer.

    When my pack was going bad six years ago I went new and have not had to think about it since.

    Lots of folks here take pride in doing everything diy with low cost first and foremost. Some active members will actually browbeat someone for putting reliability first and cost second. Sometimes economics force compromise.

    With that in mind, the diy approach is well documented in the thread below by a budget guy with documentation skills and an EE professor with good knowledge. The first three pages is enough to get the idea.

    Gen II Prius Individual Battery Module Replacement | PriusChat

    Today there are a few “reconditioned” vendors who sell at almost new prices and promise a long warranty. The issue is the inconvenience of putting it back in the shop again and again as old modules fail.
     
    #42 rjparker, Apr 21, 2024
    Last edited: Apr 21, 2024
  3. pasadena_commut

    pasadena_commut Senior Member

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    The Prius pack consists of two parts. On the driver's side there is a small section where the electronics and most of the wiring lives. It is under its own cover. On the passenger's side of that there is a big cover under which all the modules live. When you buy an OEM battery from the dealer they give you everything under that larger cover (except for some rubber ventilation tubes), but it is not completely assembled. So you get all new modules, all preassembled (with bus bars and such), plus new wires. I think they don't put the wires on for you because they could/would be damaged in transit. A "new" complete pack is made by combining the electronics and rubber tubes from the old pack with the new modules and wires from the dealer.

    I think they do it this way because in most cases there is no reason to replace the electronics section. However, as noted previously, in some cars the battery control unit may have become corroded, in which case it needs to be replaced.

    In a way it is analogous to changing the bag on a vacuum cleaner. One uses a vacuum cleaner until it "fails" because the bag is full. Then it is opened up, the "bad" bag discarded, and a new one installed, and now it works. No reason to replace the whole vacuum cleaner.

    That said, one could make a very good argument that Toyota should ship a complete pack (plug and play, no assembly required, pretested) and they should do the assembly/recycling of electronics at the factory. They might have to charge a little more, but it would remove most of the labor cost for installing one (at the dealer) and make it much faster for an owner or independent mechanic too.
     
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  4. dolj

    dolj Senior Member

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    So he did, and in that case, that's a good deal, IMO. @16 yrs & counting should jump on that deal if Carall will stretch to her location and the deal is still available.
     
  5. 16 yrs & counting

    16 yrs & counting Junior Member

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    I did jump on it and he's coming on Weds to install the battery. He said he's done it over 100 times and takes him less than 40 minutes!

    He doesn't think that I need a new computer because the car is drivable, which is in itself a mystery, since the previous shop said that they couldn't even put it into neutral so it could be towed. But Carall has one in case I need it.

    Now I'm going to pick up my car and hope that it makes it home. They warned me that it could die at any time. :(
     
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  6. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    ask him how much for the computer if it needs it, shouldn't be over $100.
     
  7. 16 yrs & counting

    16 yrs & counting Junior Member

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    Is it possible that the computer could cause intermittent failures? Dealership says they got error code U0293 "lost communication with hybrid vehicle control system"
     
  8. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    it is possible. usually, it is corroded connectors on the pc board and wire harness
     
  9. 16 yrs & counting

    16 yrs & counting Junior Member

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    I picked up the Prius at the dealership but they did not give me those 28 codes they said they had for my car.

    How important are they? It appears that their diagnosis is wrong, since the Hybrid Control ECU controls all the other computers, and yet I was able to drive it home. Maybe they felt that they didn't need to bother with a correct diagnosis if they weren't doing the work, but that's why I paid them $175: for a correct diagnosis.
     
  10. rjparker

    rjparker Tu Humilde Sirviente

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    All they were doing was preparing you for the worse case. It is unlikely they did more than hook up Techstream to it.

    The Prius will throw extraneous codes when something serious happens. Usually you save them and reset to get the real story.

    Be sure you get a one year parts and labor warranty on the used hv battery. Hopefully a guy 2 hours away does not ghost you if something happens. Which is one of many reasons you need to find a local hybrid shop for now and the future.
     
    #50 rjparker, Apr 22, 2024
    Last edited: Apr 22, 2024
  11. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    if you paid them, they should give you the codes
     
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  12. 16 yrs & counting

    16 yrs & counting Junior Member

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    bisco likes this.
  13. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    all the best!
     
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  14. 16 yrs & counting

    16 yrs & counting Junior Member

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    Carall was here yesterday to replace my HV battery and that seems to be all that was needed, as there are no more error codes and all the warning lights on the dash are gone, yay! He also left me two computers that fit side by side behind the glove compartment, in case they are needed, as well as two gizmos related to keyless entry. It was $1200 after a $200 credit for my current OEM battery. The dealership quoted me $3500, so a very good deal!

    I've had a dog in my car almost every day for the past 16 years, and the fan that cools the battery was heavily clogged with dog fur -- probably contributed to its demise. It's not easy to get to, but people who travel with pets should probably be cleaning it out every couple of years. I never had and wasn't aware that I needed to.

    There are only 8K miles on this new battery, and he restored it to 101% capacity, so I shouldn't have to worry about it for five years, Carall said.

    Thanks again Bisco for sending me Carall's offer. It didn't occur to me to search for something like that here, so I'm grateful that you alerted me. Also grateful to all the smart, knowledgeable people here on PriusChat who helped me figure out what to do. Thank you!!!
     
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  15. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    he just happened to post it a few days after you. i don't know him of course, but i hope it all works out.
    you roly don't spend much time here, but one of our mantra's for the last 20 years has been to clean the cooling fan, especially if you have pets.
    toyota makes no mention of it unfortunately, though they did add a filter to the intake grill in 2013 or something, so they certainly caught on to the problem at some point.
    some dealers will recommend it, but of course, their prices are outrageous.
     
  16. Carall

    Carall Member

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    Here are the trouble codes that were present at the time of scanning that Prius.
    After starting it several times, I could hear that there was a misfire as soon as the engine started, then the misfires seemed to go away.
     

    Attached Files:

  17. 16 yrs & counting

    16 yrs & counting Junior Member

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    Kind of crazy that there could be so many codes, all apparently generated by a failing/failed battery. Thank you Carall for getting this straightened out!
     
  18. Carall

    Carall Member

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    And this is the condition of the battery from this Prius.
    The block 7 (mod. 14) and the block 9 (mod. 18) have failed.

    And this is what the voltage was 10 hours after removing the battery from the car.
    The right column is the weight of each module.
    20240424_221438.jpg

    The heaviest Panasonic module I've ever seen weighed 1043 grams. A module that weighs 1030 grams or less is already junk. Such modules can still work, but will lose capacity very quickly. After 18 months the capacity can be ~2000 mAh, but sometimes they begin to leak.
    2004 batteries with over 150k miles weigh ~1030 grams and this battery is further proof of that.

    I took 4 modules with the highest and the lowest voltages and checked their capacity.

    Module voltages before discharge-charge cycle:
    Module 2: 8.42v
    Module 3: 8.39v
    Module 15: 8.39v
    Module 22: 8.35v

    The capacity of these 4 modules
    Module 2: 637 mAh
    Module 3: 490 mAh
    Module 15: 508 mAh
    Module 22: 527 mAh

    The next step will be the application of Hybrid Automotive equipment.
     

    Attached Files:

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  19. Carall

    Carall Member

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    Glad I could help. Enjoy your Prius!
    I hope you won't see those "loss communication" trouble codes.
     
  20. mr_guy_mann

    mr_guy_mann Senior Member

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    The HV battery can't cause the P0016 code from the ECM.

    Best case is that the VVT (variable valve timing) solenoid on the engine is sticking - easy to replace.

    Worse case is that there's problems with the engine timing chain.

    Keep us posted on what happens

    Posted via the PriusChat mobile app.