1. Attachments are working again! Check out this thread for more details and to report any other bugs.

PiP EV Larger / Additional Battery

Discussion in 'Gen 1 Prius Plug-in 2012-2015' started by Matthew Hession, Aug 12, 2023.

  1. Matthew Hession

    Matthew Hession New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2023
    4
    3
    0
    Location:
    Dallastown
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    Plug-in Base
    So I really want to squeeze out a little more range on my EV. The majority of my commutes are around 20 miles and I can charge in between for free, so if I could get a little more range I’d be in really good shape. Unfortunately a newer prime is out of the question.

    I’ve looked into it a little bit. I’ve seen the nexcells as maybe some kinda of option. I’ve also thought about just getting a second standard PiP battery and either having them in parallel or maybe a switch between them and running one then the other and flipping the switch after one is fully charged. I’m also willing to just build a whole new battery from 21700 cells.

    The main issue is I can’t find enough information about what needs to be considered outside of the battery itself. Like I know there is a lot of electronic components with a batter management system and other stuff and I just can get enough info about what needs to be considered with all that in order for me to give it a go.

    any info at all or links worth looking into would be appreciated.
     
    #1 Matthew Hession, Aug 12, 2023
    vvillovv, Data Daedalus and bisco like this.
  2. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

    Joined:
    May 11, 2005
    108,585
    49,338
    0
    Location:
    boston
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    Plug-in Base
    welcome!
    and unfortunately, you won't.
    no one has successfully accomplished this because of the nightmare of toyota proprietary software, and the mishmash of everything else involved.
    everything in the car is built around the size of the battery.
    it would take a dedicated electrical engineer, an expert software hacker and a labor of love (not to mention expense)
    that's why i'm trading for a bolt. used ev prices are dropping, and an old leaf might be an even swap for your pip.
    all the best! (y)
     
    #2 bisco, Aug 13, 2023
    Data Daedalus likes this.
  3. Leadfoot J. McCoalroller

    Leadfoot J. McCoalroller Senior Member

    Joined:
    May 12, 2018
    7,122
    6,671
    1
    Location:
    Pennsylvania
    Vehicle:
    2018 Prius c
    Model:
    Two
    Never say never.

    The challenge is doing it for less than it would cost to trade for a used Prius Prime- cheapest ones are around 20k now. Plugins like yours seem to be trading for around 12k.

    Can you get yours to do what you want for less than $8k?
     
    #3 Leadfoot J. McCoalroller, Aug 13, 2023
    black_jmyntrn and Data Daedalus like this.
  4. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

    Joined:
    May 11, 2005
    108,585
    49,338
    0
    Location:
    boston
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    Plug-in Base
    #4 bisco, Aug 13, 2023
    Kromis likes this.
  5. Matthew Hession

    Matthew Hession New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2023
    4
    3
    0
    Location:
    Dallastown
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    Plug-in Base
    Would even having a second PiP battery not be an option. What if it was hooked up with like a switch where they were used separately. One charges for 2 hrs. Switch flips the other charges for 2 hrs. When one gets low, flip the switch the other gets used.

    I’ve looked into other options and it does seem too complicated to be affordable and or dangerous. But this seems like a realistic solution to me. Albeit not ideal. It would work I’d think. Thoughts?
     
    #5 Matthew Hession, Aug 16, 2023
  6. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

    Joined:
    May 11, 2005
    108,585
    49,338
    0
    Location:
    boston
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    Plug-in Base
    the switch would also have to be incorporated in the car wiring harness for operational use.
    and you should probably upgrade the suspension
     
    #6 bisco, Aug 16, 2023
  7. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

    Joined:
    May 11, 2005
    108,585
    49,338
    0
    Location:
    boston
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    Plug-in Base
    #7 bisco, Aug 16, 2023
  8. Matthew Hession

    Matthew Hession New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2023
    4
    3
    0
    Location:
    Dallastown
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    Plug-in Base
    I very rarely have passengers or cargo. And when I do they are small children. I think weight wise I’d be okay. But I’m not opposed to upgrading the suspension. I replaced the rear struts on my last Prius. Wasn’t very hard.

    I’m thinking if I were to try to go the switch route, I’d basically try to build so it mirrors the original in every way. A new set of fans and any other components needed so that when you switch the second battery has all the same cooling aspects as the original.
     
    #8 Matthew Hession, Aug 17, 2023
  9. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

    Joined:
    May 11, 2005
    108,585
    49,338
    0
    Location:
    boston
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    Plug-in Base
    The wiring diagram would probably help

    how much does the battery weigh?
     
    #9 bisco, Aug 17, 2023
  10. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

    Joined:
    May 11, 2005
    108,585
    49,338
    0
    Location:
    boston
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    Plug-in Base
    #10 bisco, Aug 17, 2023
  11. black_jmyntrn

    black_jmyntrn Senior Member

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2020
    1,269
    333
    3
    Location:
    Los Angeles, CA
    Vehicle:
    2013 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    Plug-in Advanced
    #11 black_jmyntrn, Aug 20, 2023
  12. Matthew Hession

    Matthew Hession New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2023
    4
    3
    0
    Location:
    Dallastown
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    Plug-in Base
    So you just swapped a 8.8kWh prime battery for the 4.4kWh PiP battery? That would really be exactly what I need. Can you provide any more detail in the process. Any different management system or cooling system? Same inverter? Any changes needed other than the battery swap?
     
    #12 Matthew Hession, Aug 20, 2023
  13. black_jmyntrn

    black_jmyntrn Senior Member

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2020
    1,269
    333
    3
    Location:
    Los Angeles, CA
    Vehicle:
    2013 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    Plug-in Advanced
    ohh no, the battery's physical size is too drastic for a 1:1 swap. heh, I have them both and it wouldn't work as easily as one would think. These are new cells with the physical dimensions of the PIP 4.4 just with 8.8kWh. I need some more time, this Cali hurricane put a damper on things but once I know more, rest assured I will let the knowledge flow out.
     
    #13 black_jmyntrn, Aug 20, 2023
  14. p2013

    p2013 New Member

    Joined:
    May 21, 2024
    3
    1
    0
    Location:
    Hungary
    Vehicle:
    2013 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    N/A
    I have a phev 2013 with 14km range.
    I am thinking about to build a new Lifepo4 pack from 108 cells 3.2V 30Ah 10kWh (~60km) which would be enough to reach annual 80% EV/Gas ratio on my car.

    Current pack is 4.4kWh 345V, 288cells 3.6V, I guess in 96s3p.

    new pack would be10kWh 345V, 108cells 3.2V in serial. on each 36th cell original module measurement can be used.

    liion an lifepo4 batteries have very similar characteristics, only their voltages differ but measurement of the pack could not be in cell level i think, on module level new modules will almost be the same.

    This way i think computer would not get deviant voltages.

    new cells would be about 67kg, old is 71kg.

    I think the new pack would fit in the place of old one.

    the cost of lifepo4 cells would be about 1500-1700 EUR from Aliexpress.

    What do you think?

    I should get somewhere a dead pack first as a connector/sensor donor because i don't want to live without car for weeks.

    (sodium ion probably would not be good due to its different characteristics however it would be the safest solution.)
     
    #14 p2013, May 21, 2024
    bisco likes this.
  15. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

    Joined:
    May 11, 2005
    108,585
    49,338
    0
    Location:
    boston
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    Plug-in Base
    that should work
     
    #15 bisco, May 21, 2024
  16. black_jmyntrn

    black_jmyntrn Senior Member

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2020
    1,269
    333
    3
    Location:
    Los Angeles, CA
    Vehicle:
    2013 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    Plug-in Advanced
    link to the battery? are the terminals in the same position as oe?

    at quick look I'm saying no it wont work because the cell count and volts don't match.

    you have to use the exact same everything other than the battery capacity for it to work...
     
    #16 black_jmyntrn, May 22, 2024
  17. vvillovv

    vvillovv Senior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2013
    3,588
    1,264
    1
    Location:
    NY
    Vehicle:
    2017 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Prime Plus
    If was a DIY project that was easy there would be more info about it available. A high voltage DC switch is called a high voltage DC contactor.
    Contactor - Wikipedia
    Battery University Homepage

    Oh f -----
    and

    youtu.be/1zaV-JSwzzA
     
    #17 vvillovv, May 22, 2024
    Last edited: May 22, 2024
  18. p2013

    p2013 New Member

    Joined:
    May 21, 2024
    3
    1
    0
    Location:
    Hungary
    Vehicle:
    2013 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    N/A
    I would not want to use original case so cell size is not a problem if not too big.
    The most important info i miss that how battery voltage is metered in the orig pack.

    If there are cell level metering then i should trick the sensors with fake voltage generated by a microcontroller & some electronics but it needs more work, more money and much more time that i don't have. This way the orig battery's voltages could be emulated for the car, and any kind of battery could be in the pack if the new pack gives the same total voltage and enough amps.

    I am not meet the rules yet here to post a link :(
    but you can find it on Aliexpress by searching
    "30ah lifepo4"
     
    #18 p2013, May 22, 2024
  19. black_jmyntrn

    black_jmyntrn Senior Member

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2020
    1,269
    333
    3
    Location:
    Los Angeles, CA
    Vehicle:
    2013 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    Plug-in Advanced
    you don't have to trick it to do anything... I already told you the key, you just have to follow the words.
     
    #19 black_jmyntrn, May 27, 2024
(You must log in or sign up to post here.)