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IS IT A HEADGASKET?

Discussion in 'Prius v Main Forum' started by Ronan Greene, Jun 10, 2024.

  1. Ronan Greene

    Ronan Greene New Member

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    Hello amazing people of the internet, I'll get right to the chase
    2012 Prius V just hit 160k miles, had some rattles on cold start a month ago, was thrown codes for a misfire on cylinder 1 so I did a cleaning of the intake manifold and egr pipe and it went away... until I started getting some rattles at low acceleration, specifically when the hybrid battery switched off and went to the regular engine mode. I took apart the whole egr system, replaced all the gaskets around the egr system, did the spark plugs, pcv valve and installed an oil catch can(oil change in the last 1k miles). started it up for the first time in maintenance mode and everything seemed to be operating normally even if I stepped on the gas
    (see video), went for a little test drive and the issue immediately returned (just went around the block, didn't really go above 20mph) The rattling seemed to go away if I stepped on the gas for longer than a few seconds but I was afraid to push any limits. Do I have a headgasket issue?? if or if not, what should I do? Many thanks in advance for any responses, I'm just freaking out rn

    some things that are maybe relevant?
    - rattle used to be a cold start, not anymore
    - when I cleaned the intake manifold this time it seemed there was some oil in cylinder 2
     
  2. Ronan Greene

    Ronan Greene New Member

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    At worst I'm guessing I have a blown head gasket and at best there is something off with my timing, still freaking out and hoping for any answers soon
     
  3. rjparker

    rjparker Tu Humilde Sirviente

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    Kind of wish the clean egr and misfire guys would back off and save unnecessary work and parts replacement. Many times that money would have paid somebody to change the hg at the early stage. Which is the time to clean the intake and egr.

    98% an advanced stage hg. When it was rattling on cold start it was small, now you are risking hydrolock and bent rods.

    A borescope inspection will remove the remaining 2% of doubt. Or just get a rebuilt engine that will also stop oil burning and save your $2k catalytic converter,
     
  4. Ronan Greene

    Ronan Greene New Member

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    what would be your recommendation? a headgasket repair/replacement or engine replacement?
     
  5. rjparker

    rjparker Tu Humilde Sirviente

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    Depends on the rebuilder and his inspection after a teardown. I think the typical shop or diy rebuild is a risk. Many have bought from Hybridpit in Calif with good results and had it shipped to them.
    Prius gen3 hybrid pit rebuild ebay.jpeg
    These aluminum engines tolerate very little overheating without warping and have a tenacity to score the cylinder walls if it is an oil burner. Either problem and the engine may fail after a "simple" head gasket job. As a result most dealers and experienced mechanics would go straight to a professionally rebuilt engine unless the hg was caught early and the engine was not an oil burner.

    The alternative is an used JDM engine installed by a shop who has done many gen3s. Again trust in the shop is essential. I would not install a US salvaged engine because the highest volume of gen3 engines were made prior to the late 2014 piston, hg and ring improvements.

    Ideally find a non dealer shop who specializes in hybrids. Dealers are too expensive and will install a new short block to ensure success. Almost everyone else does not understand gen3 engines were a Toyota engineering fail. They often think gen3 misfires that clear up are plugs, egrs, coils and injectors.

    A gen3 hg doesn't present the same as many are used to (a huge problem) and the egr guys give false hope after the damage has been done. This was initiated by a sticking egr tsb which caused stumbles and rough idles but not serious misfires.
     
  6. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

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    Cleaning the EGR and intake at 160K miles, when you've got head gasket failure symptoms, is about 110K miles too late. Still commendable, but don't expect it to reverse time.

    For head gasket diagnosis: pressurize the engine coolant circuit (employing something capable of applying pressure, maybe with an added T-connection to a hose at the reservoir), and use a boroscope to check for coolant tears (seeping past head gasket) and/or exceptionally clean-looking piston tops.

    There's some relevant links in my signature; on a phone turn it landscape to see signatures.

    The video sounds normal, btw. Was that a cold-start?
     
  7. Ronan Greene

    Ronan Greene New Member

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    This was a cold start, is there any reason I am only hearing something when the car is switching between the hybrid system and regular engine? If this is a headgasket, what should I do? almost scared to drive it to a shop but even if I do should I be asking for a repair or replacement?
     
  8. Ronan Greene

    Ronan Greene New Member

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    Is it too late for just a head gasket replacement? not totally against doing it DIY to have it done carefully and correctly but if it's already a lost cause that wouldn't be worth it
     
  9. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

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    Doesn’t sound unusual at all then, but maybe the recording doesn’t do it justice. That said, 160k, it’s common.
     
  10. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    the only way to determine if it is too late for just a hg is to disassemble it and measure everything.
     
  11. Ronan Greene

    Ronan Greene New Member

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    like measure the head? see if its warped?
     
  12. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    yes, and they have to make sure no damage has been done to the lower half
     
  13. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

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    Especially the bottom link.

    There's flatness specs for the head/block interface, and the machined faces at intake and exaust manifolds IIRC. And the head bolts, timing chain, and so on. One biggie: with the head off, when you rotate the pistons to TDC (Top Dead Center), if any one of them is lower than the others, that's a sign of a bent piston arm.

    Again, with 160K miles, and the sound in that video, it doesn't sound bad. Is coolant stable in the reservoir? Keep an eye on it over the next weeks.
     
    #13 Mendel Leisk, Jun 12, 2024
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2024
  14. Ronan Greene

    Ronan Greene New Member

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    ok got it, also I have a multipart question for you since it seems like you are semi in my area.
    1. If the heads are warped and I have a headgasket issue should I be looking more for an engine swap?
    2. Is there anyone in the boston area you would trust with an engine swap for the Prius and what are your thoughts of the gen 4 engine swap? If the cost is somewhat in the same realm and there is someone you would trust to do the swap I am okay with going that route. I've been messaging @skimmilkhybrid on instagram but seems like he will be Oklahoma for the foreseeable future
     
  15. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

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    Gen 4 transplants have proven problematic, prone to overheat, maybe not working well with gen 3 programming, or whatever.

    Still, considering your miles, and the way that engine sounds in the video, I would lean towards just a gasket replacement. At least pull the head and check everything, see where you stand.

    If you get the Toyota gasket kit it's got the head gasket plus pretty much every pliable seal, gasket, guide and O-ring in there. It's prudent to also replace the head bolts. It's about $200~250 USD for the kit, and maybe about $100 for new head bolts.

    If you've got getting-up-there oil change, a short block swap is something to consider; they're about $2K brand new, and any for sale through official channels now will have the revised piston/rings, less prone to consumption. Either the old or new style are good for at least 100k anyway.
     
  16. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    unfortunately, i have never had one done, or read about any in this area. there haven't been any decent hybrid shops recommended around here over the years that i have seen.
    the only one i have read any decent review on is leo and sons. you can google them, i have no direct experience.
    on the gen3/4 thing, i have read mixed reviews. all you can do is read the threads, and if you can find someone to do the work, they will have an opinion i'm sure.
     
  17. Ronan Greene

    Ronan Greene New Member

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    sounds like something I could try and tackle this weekend, I actually have not been driving it since I heard the low rpm rattles (getting my biking miles in) and the video is the first time I turned the car on after cleaning out the egr, installing the occ, and replacing the gaskets around the intake manifold and egr.
     
  18. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

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    It'd take me a bit longer. :oops:

    Full disclosure: I've never done anything more arduous than the EGR cleanout.

    I wouldn't recommend these guys, but a good video:



    For the head bolts they use a "triple square" bit, which is not optimum. Toyota specs a "10 mm double hex", which is readily available on amazon. Also, they use an alternative form-in-place gasket, Permatex Ultra-Black IIRC (it's spec'd in the video), which likely IS preferable to the Toyota spec: it's got a much more leisurely cure-time, which is important for DIY install of the timing chain cover.
     
    #18 Mendel Leisk, Jun 12, 2024
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2024
  19. Ronan Greene

    Ronan Greene New Member

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    If I find that my head is warped what is the best course of action? Just trying to get all my bases covered now, should I try to go for this short block swap? or just have someone shave the heads?
     
  20. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    i think you would have to take it to a machine shop to determine. you also need to make sure the top of the block is flat.
    again, without testing, idk if the engine is sound outside of the head gasket.
    rjparker suggests some testing in his post above, he knows more than i do.