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Need help-pump -pump not running during ABS bleed

Discussion in 'Gen 3 Prius Care, Maintenance & Troubleshooting' started by Seymour1, Jun 30, 2024 at 8:35 AM.

  1. Seymour1

    Seymour1 Junior Member

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    I have a new pump and actuator installed. 2 weeks ago, I bled brakes the old school way. I had no scanner. Now I have T S and when I bleed the front brakes, the pump does not run and fluid comes out slowly. And when I opened the valve on the stroke simulator, no fluid came out and no air and the pump does not run. The other end of the hose is submersed and there were no air bubbles. I am doing this alone and use a 2x4 to hold down the petal after I pump the brakes.
    What am I doing wrong?
     
    #1 Seymour1, Jun 30, 2024 at 8:35 AM
  2. Seymour1

    Seymour1 Junior Member

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    I did get "lost communications" 2 times. But, does the T S tell the pump to run or does T S only tell me the steps (one way communications) for this step? I have a battery charger on the 12 volt battery. Maybe I have a crappy cable.
    And I read a post where someone said that without fluid in the stroke simutator, it could be damanged if I drive the car much. I have driven no mire than 25 miles.
     
    #2 Seymour1, Jun 30, 2024 at 8:54 AM
  3. Seymour1

    Seymour1 Junior Member

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    I am running T S ver 12-20-024 which is old. Should I try another version if I can find it and able to set it up?
    My brake codes are C1203, C1336, C1345, and C1451. My battery voltahe has stayed over 12.0 volts.
    I have seen others post the same problem, but with no direct answers. I will keep looking.
     
    #3 Seymour1, Jun 30, 2024 at 9:15 AM
  4. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

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    There are two different fluid paths serving the front brakes, and the scan tool bleed procedure has to bleed both paths. The on-screen instructions will step you through bleeding both front brakes, then later instructions will take you to the front brakes again. It seems weird but that's how it works.

    One path can be bled using the electric pump. The other path can only be bled by you pumping the brake pedal, as when bleeding an old car. I think the pedal-only step is the first one and the pump-powered step is the second time through, but I haven't done it in a while.

    The diagram looks like the accumulator doesn't feed the stroke simulator, so I wouldn't expect any pump assist while bleeding that.

    [​IMG]

    The C1451 code you have (with the weird fortune cookie "motor drive permission malfunction") is there to prohibit the pump motor from running under almost all circumstances. Going through the bleed procedure to the end is the only way to make that code go away, and then the pump will run all the usual times. Until then, it should only run at the few times the bleed procedure itself requires.
     
    #4 ChapmanF, Jun 30, 2024 at 9:35 AM
  5. Seymour1

    Seymour1 Junior Member

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    Interesting.
    I have read posts where they needed to try several times before anything came out of the the stroke simulator. I will try tomorrow before it gets too hot.
    Others post that a cheap cable is will give trouble, but they point to ones costing $500 or more. I have a $30 cable.
     
    #5 Seymour1, Jun 30, 2024 at 7:37 PM
  6. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

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    There's a whole middle of that price range to explore. I've had good brake-bleeding results with my $169 cable.
     
    #6 ChapmanF, Jun 30, 2024 at 10:29 PM
  7. Seymour1

    Seymour1 Junior Member

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    This A.M. I got the same results, except after I pumped up the brakes good, a beeper sounded. $169 does not sound bad if I was sure that it would fix my brakes. Maybe I am doing something wrong or maybe there is something else wrong with my car, my software setup or my laptop. The dealer said if nothing else is wrong with my car, they will bleed everything for $165 (one hour) On Amazon, prices range from $25 to $93 and all look the same. They include a CD with the program. I found one for $55 without the T S program and I ordered it. It looks like all the others. Maybe I will be lucky.
    I don't know why the alarm beeper went off. Maybe that is a clue to fixing my brakes.
     
    #7 Seymour1, Jul 1, 2024 at 8:11 AM
  8. Seymour1

    Seymour1 Junior Member

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    XHORSE MVCI PRO J2534 Vehicle Diagnostic Prog-ram Cable XDMVJ0 Replace
    I found this on ebay. They claim "Stable and smooth" . I ordered it, also. It lookes different from the others. (black outer insulation) I will return whichever one(s) do not work.
    This A.M., on my first try, a small amount of fluid came out slowly out of the stroke simulator. And sinse then, my brake petal goes down much farther. I guess that is why I am told to re-bleed the front brakes. I has been more than 30 minutes (several hours)
     
    #8 Seymour1, Jul 1, 2024 at 9:25 AM
  9. Seymour1

    Seymour1 Junior Member

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    I just tried to bleed the front brakes. I think I got some air bubbles, but the petal still goes too far down. I probably need to start all over and bleed all 4. After I get one of my new cables, I will do that.
    Thank you for your help.
     
    #9 Seymour1, Jul 1, 2024 at 9:57 AM
  10. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

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    A J2534 cable from a legitimate seller is not going to come with a bootleg copy of Techstream thrown in. It will just be the cable and the J2534 driver DLL to go with it. You just load the driver on your laptop and use it with your own copy of Techstream (which can be one you downloaded fair and square from Toyota, or one that came thrown in with some other cable you bought).
     
    #10 ChapmanF, Jul 1, 2024 at 11:23 AM
  11. ASRDogman

    ASRDogman Senior Member

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    You need to do it correctly with the correct tool. You should really get by with close
    enough when it comes to brakes. Buying the correct tools cost money.
    Think of what it would cost if you took it to someone to do correctly.
    So if you purchase the correct tool for that same amount or less, you come out ahead.
    Because you can use it again at no extra cost.
    That's why I bought the XTools D8. I used it 3 times to clear the p0080 or whatever the code is
    for the hybrid battery so I could keep driving until I got a new battery.
    I've also used it on a few other cars. If you only have techstream, you can only use it on Toyota's.
    It was well worth the $500 for it!
     
    #11 ASRDogman, Jul 1, 2024 at 11:42 AM
  12. Seymour1

    Seymour1 Junior Member

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    My Toyota dealer said he can do it in one hour ($165). I think that after the brakes, everything else will be fine for now. I plan to give 2 (high quality????) cables a try. I can send them back. Both sellers ask for me to contact them if I have problems. Neither include software. One is $55 and one is $79.
    I am wondering why my cable will read codes, but loses connection during the stroke simulator step. Perhaps this translates the cable has one-way communications. The cheap cable will read from the car but not send commands to the car.
    I received the $55 cable this evening. I will test tomorrow.
     
    #12 Seymour1, Jul 2, 2024 at 7:49 PM
  13. ASRDogman

    ASRDogman Senior Member

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    Because it's a cheap chinese copy... you get what you pay for.


     
    #13 ASRDogman, Jul 2, 2024 at 8:20 PM
  14. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

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    Wouldn't surprise me a bit if it turned out to be something totally dumb like an underspecified timeout built into the J2534 driver. Some of the bleed operations, like the zero-down/pump-up step, take several seconds. Product A came with a driver where the programmer guessed "5 seconds is a long enough timeout for this" and product B's programmer guessed 10 was long enough, and B gets through the sequence every time and A doesn't.

    I don't know what the story is really, but it doesn't have to be anything more interesting than that. And the drivers are generally closed-source and whatever magic numbers like timeouts are buried inside them, and if you knew where it was and changed it you might solve the whole problem, but the poor consumer is just left with "huh, didn't work, try another".
     
    #14 ChapmanF, Jul 2, 2024 at 10:11 PM
  15. Seymour1

    Seymour1 Junior Member

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    I tested the $55 cable (no software) and it did not work as well as the original cable (cable#1) that I bought for only $30. So, now, I will wait for the ebay cable ($79) and hope that it will work. It might arrive 7-8-2024.
    My cable #1 remembers the year of my car cable #2 does not. Cable #2 takes 4.5 minutes to connect. #1 is much faster. Cable #1 reports "Lost communications with the vehicle." Cable #2 reports "Selected system is not responding or not available".
    I am a little gun-shy about contacting the cable vendor.
    The ih8mud website did my laptop setup with drivers and things. I wonder if newer 18.XX-XX will work better.
     
    #15 Seymour1, Jul 3, 2024 at 11:20 AM
  16. Seymour1

    Seymour1 Junior Member

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    Cable #2 ad 2024-07-03_11-45-28.jpg
     
    #16 Seymour1, Jul 3, 2024 at 11:48 AM
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