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Panama Canal is bigger

Discussion in 'Environmental Discussion' started by tochatihu, Jun 25, 2016.

  1. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

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  2. wjtracy

    wjtracy Senior Member

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    That's really something.
    I think we are hoping for more cargo ship traffic to Virginia ports now.
    Sounds like the canal runs on fresh water...one would have thought sea water.
     
  3. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

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    It is a heckuva thing, must go see in person. The jungly bits nearby are in good condition too (as such things go), but Panama has not done as much as Costa Rica (for example) in promoting ecotourism.

    In the middle you find Lake Gatun at 26 meters above sea level. What made the idea initially appealing is that one only needs to cut 2 half canals. Version 1 was total loss on on that water, and quite a lot for each lock cycle. The thing was recently operating at 3 or 4 times its initially expected max, so water became an issue. Besides the fact that some years, much less rain falls in Panama (El Nino linked). So, more drainage basins were plugged into the Chagras River basin.

    Version 2 has bigger (bypassing) locks and a degree of water recycling.

    I do not know how this could be achieved by pumping so much seawater uphill. Well I can imagine how, but at an amazing cost.
     
  4. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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  5. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

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    Panama land bridge is about 6 million years old, so that is the age of barrier. Antarctica has been icy for about 10 million, so sea level did not inundate the land bridge.

    However marine populations have diverged since, land critters (north to south, and south to north) really did some amazing mixing starting 6 mya. And ending with the canal construction.
     
  6. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

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    Seems surprising that low-water operations of (my favorite) canal may continue for 11 more months:

    Panama Canal administrator hopes traffic normalizes by February 2025

    Today I learned that revised operations require 200 million liters of water per ship for complete passage. And that original (total loss) system was 500 million liters.

    Even with this amount of recycling, 2023 continuing drought has been bad. Panama rain is strongly influenced by El Nino. You will read elsewhere that current drought is also climate change, but that might be overstated. Country level rain records are easy to find for 100 years, and 1929, 1941, 1958 and 1977 were drier. Just keepin' it real.
     
  7. Zythryn

    Zythryn Senior Member

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    You could test that hypothesis by looking at the water levels during other El Ninos. If this one is worse than others, that would support the contribution by climate change.
     
  8. Rmay635703

    Rmay635703 Senior Member

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    It doesn’t recover the water at the bottom (that is next to a city that could use the water)

    The increased size requires more water transfer and considering the eternal drought (water levels at the lake have been dropping what 25 years?)
    the number of ships per day is limited by water availability .

    Give it time and the canal might be nothing more than a long dry dock.

    Panama Canal drought causes global disruptions | PBS NewsHour
     
    #8 Rmay635703, Mar 23, 2024
    Last edited: Mar 23, 2024
  9. fuzzy1

    fuzzy1 Senior Member

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    One must include the changes in amount of ship traffic demand in the comparison. Traffic growth since the previous drought means a new drought today has greater impact than the same drought a half century ago.
     
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  10. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

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    Panama canal upgrades cost locals and their investors about USD 5 billions. Even in driest years it will operate (with less traffic). Panama is not large as a water catchment and they 'upped' it as much as possible. If later there is version 3 it can only do more water recycling and require more storage basins. In construction era, the main things were to get big machines into play, and kill less workers by yellow fever and malaria. It was notably successful in those 3. In terms of water supply, they did the best they could.

    ==Next we move to La Nina or neutral for a while, and higher traffic levels. More crimps will come later. Sorry.

    Not sorry.
     
  11. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

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    The 2016 expansion added new larger locks and instituted water recycling up to 60%. During the 2024 dry season, that proved to be inadequate. Panama Canal is still restricting transits. Dry years in Panama have become more frequent. In response, Panama is considering increasing land area to supply more water.


    Rio Indio watershed is shown in included image. There I also drew red lines along the excavated canal.


    Adding more land area to supply water for Canal operations was illegal, but Panama Supreme Court has changed that. Estimated USD$1.6 billions will build a new reservoir for Rio Indio watershed water, build an 8 kilometer pipe to transfer water, and take care of displaced locals. It will require 6 years and add a third to dry-season Canal functions, according to available information.


    By my understanding of geography of Panama, no more expansion of water-supply area is possible. If Canal operations are still crimped in future dry years, so they shall be.


    ==

    What won’t help? Pumping ocean water up to Lake Gatun solves water (volume) supply, but 4.4 million in Panama drink from that. And lake life gets killed, so, no. Desalinization and pumping ocean water up to Lake Gatun would cost more than ship-transit fees, so not that either.


    Adding Rio Indio is as much as can be done. Canal will fully function year round during all but driest years, when function will be reduced by some amount.


    ==

    Planning a sea-level canal through Nicaragua was hot for a while but faded. Young readers may read of it 2040 or after.

    Pan Canal and Rio Indio watershed.png
     
  12. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    what we need is long haul blimps
     
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  13. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

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    Wha? Blimps to carry (probably the smaller) Canal crossing vessels? Never thought of that. Provide details.
     
  14. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    na, to carry cheap chinese goods to the overcomsumptuous american public
     
  15. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    Maybe for higher end goods, but ships got a big cost to mass moved advantage.
     
  16. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    but ship shipping costs could rise, like blimps
     
  17. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    How much does going around South America add to the price? Does that hurt the ships that already go around because they are too big for the canal?

    Then there is the big factor of price per ton shipped. The airships in development are targeting 160 tons for the largest models. That's more than the majority of cargo planes. A small container can have 31 tons loaded into it. Ships that can go through the canal can carry 3000 to 14k containers. The cost of running the airship needs to be 500 to 1000 times less than the ship for most goods to be moved by it.

    The transport fees per item are going to be higher with the airship. Luxury goods where that cost is a smaller part of the price may make the switch. Airships may also extend the market range of perishable goods. They will be cheaper than current cargo planes, and much of what is shipped that way will be fine taking a few days longer to arrive.

    I think airships real potential will be in overland transport. Even places with good roads need to move things, like wind turbine blades, that can be a PITA to move on the ground. Plus, an airship can access places a helicopter can for lower cost.
     
  18. kenmce

    kenmce High Voltage Member

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    The fresh water serves as a biological barrier so that fewer pests get carried through. They also probably get it by gravity so they spend less on pumping.
     
  19. kenmce

    kenmce High Voltage Member

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    Where do I sign on? It's the civilized way to travel.
     
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  20. JohnnyPR

    JohnnyPR Junior Member

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    That seems inevitable.