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P3000-123 and P0A80 after hybrid battery reconditioning and rebalancing

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Technical Discussion' started by bbellgrl, Sep 3, 2024.

  1. bbellgrl

    bbellgrl New Member

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    Many thanks. just ordered 2 new modules. will update when they have been replaced and reinstalled.
     
  2. mr_guy_mann

    mr_guy_mann Senior Member

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    Good luck. There are MANY posts about replacing modules in the HV pack and discharge - charge cycling.

    In general it seems that "just" putting a few modules in seldom works as the installed ones do not match the condition of the others. Maybe 10-15% success - ie the lights stay out for 6-12 months.

    As the battery is used, the effective module capacity degrades. As long as they degrade by the same amount, the pack will work ok.

    The "new" modules likely do not have the same (effective) capacity or State Of Charge. That means that during use the voltage difference (delta) will be high and often flags P0A80 again.

    Since the replacement modules often are in "better" condition than most of the old pack, another block is now the lowest voltage and that one sets the code.

    Replace that block and then the next one becomes "the lowest" and repeat. We call this game "whack a mole".

    If you work on the pack, pay attention to safety procedures, use a torque wrench to tighten HV stud-nut connections to 48 INCH-pounds, and do all 3 steps when refitting the orange HV service plug.


    Posted via the PriusChat mobile app.
     
    Tim Jones likes this.
  3. bbellgrl

    bbellgrl New Member

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    Thanks for this. Great points I hadn't thought of. Already ordered the two modules, so we'll see how this goes. When I reconditioned all the modules (it took almost 2 months), just about every module was reporting great numbers after several cycles, so I'm hopeful they'll be strong enough to keep the warning lights off for some time. If they come back on, I'll likely just order a new pack.

    Can you remind me what the 3 steps are for the orange HV service plug? I want to be sure I haven't been leaving anything out.

    Thank you again.
     
  4. dolj

    dolj Senior Member

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    I would run a couple of cycle on the 2 modules when you get them just so I know what condition they were in. Trust but verify.
    Prius Gen 2 Safety Interlock.jpg
     
  5. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

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    People sometimes forget the third step, but if you do the car gives you a P0A0D code, so it's hard to forget for long.
     
  6. bbellgrl

    bbellgrl New Member

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    Received the two new modules. Ran a series of discharge/charge cycles on them, identical to the cycles i ran on all of my cells when I did the original reconditioning. These two new ones have less capacity than the modules they are supposed to replace:

    Original Modules best results:
    Block 2 module 1: 5025mAh discharge, maxed out at 7500mAh charge
    Block 2 module 2: 5028mAh discharge, maxed out at 7500mAh charge

    New Modules best results:
    Module 1: 4944mAh discharge, 7322mAh charge
    Module 2: 4448mAh discharge, 6910mAh charge

    The first module I bought from this seller a few months ago was perfect, with capacity numbers of 5400/7500.

    So now I don't know if I should replace both modules in block 2 with the two new modules (I don't know which of them was the bad one, or maybe both were bad).

    Or maybe i'm doing this all wrong! :)
     
  7. dolj

    dolj Senior Member

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    On the face of it, the data indicates that sticking with the original modules would be the better option, which is curious given the Hybrid Assistance results.

    Just to reiterate the block/module numbering for a Gen 2:

    Prius Gen II HV Battery module ID.png

    The 7500 mAh charge value is relatively meaningless.

    Can you describe, in detail, your discharge process?
     
  8. bbellgrl

    bbellgrl New Member

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    @dolj My charging process is using a EV-Peak BGUAD CQ3 Multi Charger (discharge/charge cycles with discharge at 1 amp/6v and charge at 3 amps with capacity cutoff set to 7500 mAh). I stopped caring about the mAh values when I finished a bunch of charge cycles as voltage on the two modules was nice and high. I think these are good modules.

    After rebalancing for 48 hours and reassembly, I reinstalled in the car. Immediate red triangle. Techstream shows a single code: P0A80. Dr. Prius shows no codes. Fired up Hybrid Assistant to run through the "Battery Check" procedure as described earlier in this thread. Had the same issue I described previously where one block drops voltage unexpectedly under load. Last time it was Block 2. Now that Block 2 has been replaced with refurb modules, this time it was block 4. So I guess this is the "wack-a-mole" mentioned by @mr_guy_mann.

    I should also mention (my preliminary research leads me to believe this isn't a huge issue) that when disassembling the back this time, I broke a few of the 8mm nuts that screw into the bottom of each module to hold it to the frame. I was stupidly using my impact driver to unscrew them and by the time 3 broke, I realized I should probably stop. Dumb, I know. Mistakes happen. (Even without being able to use the mounting holes on those modules, I was still able to reassemble everything and put all the other nuts back into the bottom of the cells; it all fit).

    At this point, I'm really, really, REALLY tired of messing around with this thing. I've uninstalled and reinstalled this pack 3 or 4 times over the past 4-5 months, and I just want to be done. I don't want to continue playing wack-a-mole with this thing. The way I see it, I have a few decent options in lieu of spending more time trying to isolate the issue with my current pack, unless I'm overlooking something egregious and can fix it after all):

    1. buy a new pack from Toyota. (~$1,900 - $2,100?)
    2. buy a refurb pack. I talked to a company called Greentec Auto who wanted (in May 2024) $1,300 for a "remanufactured" pack with a 12-month warranty. I just checked their website, and now I see a 12-month warranty pack for 999 shipped.
    3. buy 25 more modules from the same eBay seller that sold me 3 already, and complete the rebuild (~$1k). This seems risky because what if there are other issues in the control modules in my HV battery frame that might be causing these issues? Maybe it's smarter to get a full pack that's been tested and is guaranteed.

    My car has 148k miles, and the clear coat on the top surfaces is bad. It doesn't look great, but it has good tires, cold A/C, and everything works fine, though Toyota did an inspection on it and told me that it will be needing things like brakes, belts, and suspension. My plan is to sell it as soon as the HV system is fixed. I don't want the car.

    Thanks again for all the advice and guidance. It's been fun learning all about this stuff.
     
    #28 bbellgrl, Sep 21, 2024 at 2:18 AM
    Last edited: Sep 21, 2024 at 2:30 AM
  9. bbellgrl

    bbellgrl New Member

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    Any last-minute thoughts about my options? Thanks.
     
  10. Tim Jones

    Tim Jones Senior Member

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    Get rid of before the headgasket blows... or the brakes go out or both at the same time. Refirb is just another old battery.
     
  11. dolj

    dolj Senior Member

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    More of a Gen 3 thing. It is not really a significant problem on a Gen 2.

    The brake actuator failing is a $1,500 - $2,000 problem though and we are starting to seeing more of these as this generation ages.

    If it is not in good shape to put another $4,000 - $5,000 in it then it is time to part ways.
     
  12. bbellgrl

    bbellgrl New Member

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    Thanks. I just want to get the hybrid system fixed so that it runs and drives without errors. So put $1k into a refurb battery? Or sell it as is for a bargain basement price?
     
  13. Tim Jones

    Tim Jones Senior Member

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    I'm sorry I thought I was on the Prius v section. : )
     
  14. dolj

    dolj Senior Member

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    You don't have to sell it at a bargain basement price, but you won't get anymore for it with a secondhand battery (i.e. a refurb) so sell as-is with full disclosure. There will be someone out there who will buy it thinking they can make a profit flipping it.
     
  15. bbellgrl

    bbellgrl New Member

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    But it must be worth half as much with a red triangle illuminated in the dash right? Without any warning lights we’re looking at a whole different demographic of buyer of a presumable reliable, fuel-efficient car with no major issues. Maybe it’s the difference between $4500 vs $2000?
     
  16. MAX2

    MAX2 Member

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    Arithmetic is a complicated thing.
    When a used car costs 2000, and you buy parts for 2500, you think that you will sell it for 4500, but this is a very small probability.
    When you just sell it for 2000, you immediately get 2000 without extra time spent on its repair.