Toyota has made major improvements to the Gen 5 PHEV system found in the Gen 5 Prius PHEV. The Gen 6 PHEV system will debut with the all-new RAV4 this fall. Among the improvements: The problematic refrigerant battery cooling in Gen 5 Prius PHEV, which was very hard to repair and necessitated the replacement of the traction battery when there was a leak, has been replaced with a water-cooling system now. A heat exchanger for the coolant is used. The new, high-power AC charger has now been put on top of the DC–AC inverter (previously located near the back seats), with the DC–DC converter below them, all sitting on top of the e-transaxle. This has been made possible by miniaturized electronics. The charging port is now in the front. The traction battery is now under the car at the center, improving the center of gravity for better, more precise handling. The cabin and cargo space has been enlarged by moving the traction battery to the underside of the car. The battery heating and cooling has now been improved to the point that the car can be driven in the BEV mode at all temperatures. And other improvements.
Quite an improvement over my last Toyota, a 2017 Prius Prime! My 2019 Tesla Model 3 and 2017 BMW i3-REx are not broke so I'm not shopping. But when this new one shows up at a Toyota dealer, I'll go "kick the tires" like I did with one of the early Ford hybrids. Good engineering is always worth a look. Bob Wilson
Hey, they realized that the 8 year hybrid components warranty included the A/C system with the gen 5 prius setup, and they fixed that right up Good changes. I wonder how much of this is also related to the bigger form factor of the Rav4. The Prius has its battery under the car too, but the Rav4 being higher up and larger means it gets an advantage in terms of where things can go beneath the cabin. BEV mode at all temperatures is nice, but I do wonder how it does in very cold temps. And with the heat pump, unless there's also resistive heating, I think the smaller battery of a PHEV is an intractible issue once it gets cold enough. At some point, the battery range running heat to the cabin, even if the battery itself is safely operating at -30 celsius due to the better heating, its range is going to be peanuts and super inefficient relative to just driving with the gas engine and using the waste heat to warm the cabin. All in all it really is nice to see that they've iterated so much in only what, 3 years? on the new hybrid generation. I think previous hybrid generations took longer to implemented. It looks to me like the R&D on BEVs is benefiting even the PHEVs now. I'm sure the heating/cooling system is borrowing from what they're doing in the latest EVs planned for 2026 for example. The improved electronics etc. The BEV/PHEV stuff is probably coming closer to being developed alongside each other.
As I've said in the past, you got an engine, might as well use it when it makes sense too. Otherwise, you'll eventually be running it just to burn up old fuel.
Perhaps market sales whispered something. <GRINS> We owned Toyotas 1991 through 2019 because they really were the best engineering cars compared to their competition. But a 2014 BMW i3-REx and later 2019 Tesla Model 3 revealed Toyota does not have a monopoly on superior automotive engineering. My current BMW i3-REx and Tesla are not perfect but only have to be better than their competition: You don’t have to be faster than the lion. Just be faster than your friend. Bob Wilson
A work in progress, I have more with my 2019 Tesla than when I bought it March 26, 2019 and Full Self Driving in October 2019. But over two decades of owning Toyotas with most of that in Prius taught valuable lessons that paid off for both the BMW i3-REx and Tesla Model 3. For example, efficiency: 3.7 miles/kWh BMW i3 REx - at local home owner rate of $0.17/kWh, ~$4.60 to drive 100 miles around town not including the 15% free chargers where I shop and at motels. 5.0 miles/kWh Tesla Model 3 - same rate, ~$3.40 to drive 100 miles $4.60/100 miles between midnight to dawn Superchargers 37 miles/gal BMW i3-REx - when taken on trips further than the 106 mi EV range, $3/gal gas, $8.10 to drive 100 miles with no free gas. Free 106 miles at the free charging motels when I stay overnight. Over time, the Tesla and Full Self Driving software has gotten much better. Best of all, the built-in diagnostics are on par with OBD codes and diagnostics on ordinary cars. A stuck coolant valve "cooked" my traction battery at 151,000 miles but $9,000 to replace it gave me the highest performing, cheapest EV on the road. Today, it gets 202 miles which is about 4 hours of straight driving IF I didn't need to walk the dogs, take a bathroom, and snack break. Bob Wilson ps. I sold my TSLA stock and converted it to a solar roof that became operational April 30. This means free miles, free house loads, and free A/C. Here is what happened Monday that was a really good solar day: Home Solar | Page 6 | PriusChat
One thing I missed is the high-voltage coolant heater that heats the battery and engine coolant while charging the traction battery at low temperatures. That not only allows safe and efficient charging and cold-temperature performance but also heats the interior of the cabin. These high-voltage coolant heaters use positive temperature coefficient (PTC) resistive heater elements, which increase their resistance and therefore reduce the current through them when the temperature rises so that the temperature automatically regulates and limits. The separate battery and engine coolant circuits are coupled via a heat exchanger to adjust the battery temperature according to cold or hot ambient temperatures. This has probably never been done in a PHEV before.
Finally, they're recognizing the value of the thermal battery these things have been lugging around for years.
My understanding is that when Tesla goes in for mandatory safety inspections, they have a fairly high failure rate related to suspension related issues. Yes, they are obviously addressable. But they fail quite a bit faster, and at a higher rate than other EVs and cars when it comes to suspension linkages and bushings. There may not be an engine that introduces a reliability issue, and the electric drivetrain and battery may be fairly reliable. But if after a few years suspension parts need to be replaced, that's not particularly great. I mean, even on my 03 toyota the individual suspension parts have only had to be replaced once over 22 years and 300,000km. With the exception of the passenger rear suspension strut and ball joint because of a minor accident back in 2020 that required that be replaced. Suspension parts should last a very very long time in most cars. So seeing a high failure rate on those for cars under 5 years of age is wild. The whole "wompy wheel' thing didn't just come out of nowhere. It's an expensive abnormal wear and tear item with how they were engineered. Sure the software is better, but I still think Tesla isn't a particularly reliable brand. It's not the worst, by any stretch, but I'd probably put it middle of the pack overall. I mean, compared to issues Hyundai had with theta engines, I'd rather suspension need to be replaced sooner than an engine after all. Or a transmission from Nissan/Mitsubishi since those are problematic too. Or a stellantis product... oof.
Perhaps you might share your source? Having recently paid nearly $3 k to have the front suspensions rebuilt, I found: https://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/tesla-musk-steering-suspension/ ... one of tens of thousands of Tesla owners who have experienced premature failures of suspension or steering parts, according to a Reuters review of thousands of Tesla documents. The chronic failures, many in relatively new vehicles, date back at least seven years and stretch across Tesla’s model lineup and across the globe, from China to the United States to Europe, according to the records and interviews with more than 20 customers and nine former Tesla managers or service technicians. ... I had replaced my Tesla upper control arms a year ago. Only the third party parts were failing a couple of months ago when I had Tesla do the work. Every part shown in the diagram was replaced. My first thought, 'Like tires, rubber bushings wear out.' But now I am beginning to rethink what happened. Bob Wilson
