Featured Last call for EVs!

10%?
The last time I checked people with an AGI of less than $12,000 per year (24k for families) weren't the ones paying for new BEVs.
EVEN as a person in the bottom quintile of new BEV buyers, I'm mostly in the 12% bracket, so MY math along with the other people in my economic depth band "may" be a little different.
ESPECIALLY in the unlikely event that very much of my gross goes over $150,000!

My standard deduction under the OBBB will be $30,000 for TY-2025. (what would it have been otherwise?)
The standard tax brackets for 2025 will continue to be:

• 10%: Up to $23,850
• 12%: From $23,851 to $96,950
• 22%: From $96,951 to $206,700
• 24%: From $206,701 to $394,600
• 32%: From $394,601 to $501,050
• 35%: From $501,051 to $751,600
• 37%: Over $751,600

What would THEY have been otherwise???
- 10%, 15%, 25%, 28%, 33%, 35%, and 39.6%. ???
Not that big a deal for me, as it would have been a 'paltry' 2-3% of my income - right?
Hardly worth bending over to pick up it if it fell out of your pocket - eh?

As the 'hourly employee' that most liberals look down upon, most if not all of my income will be in the 10-12% tax range....and based on my pay stubs to date I will max out on the above the line deduction for OT which is $25,000 for married couples filing jointly.
This combined with the $30,000 standard deduction will keep everything I make below $151,950 under the 22% tax rate - right?
The difference between 12 and 22% seems like.......a lot.
Tell me again how much we're getting 'screwed' by the OBBB?

 

The OBBB is deliberately skewed to have little noticeable effect until after the next election. The R's aren't dumb to the timing of elections and figured that folks might take notice when they compute their taxes if it took effect now. And when the negatives kick in, they will be able to blame those in control then.

But look ahead 3-5 years and what will be the effects of all the provisions. It is then that people will feel the pinch.

In the short term, it is labor shortages and tariffs that will affect how ordinary people live. I see it every time I go to the store and there is a shortage or the price of something I buy frequently has crossed another threshold of being noticeably higher.

 

i paid cash for my bev. i think the concern here is that we're losing ev incentives, which some of us believe are part of the roadmap to energy independence. but not all of us, obviously.
interest deduction does nothing to promote ev take up rate.

 

Well.....until then I will own up to MY part of the thread weave......put my blinker on, and save the rest for later.
We will probably have time (about 3 and a half years) to talk about the OBBB) in some of the other forums.
BEV buyers like to think that they're the smart kids in the class, and whether or not they are there's a pretty good chance that they're high-earners.

You CAN get a kick-back from the government and some more from some of the states even if you buy them.

Personally?
I'm a graduated flat-taxer.
Keep the current rates where they are with NO deductions, rebates, exemptions, exclusions, kick-backs.... NOTHING but a tax form that a crayon-eater can do on the back of a 3x5 index card.

Period.
Full Stop.

One of the reasons we stopped using tariffs for income (waaaaaaaay back when the USCG, literally used revenue cutters) is that they became as completely unworkable as our current income taxes are now.
And yes.
I said AND MEANT ALL deductions.
Until then?
I will enjoy my 4 years of reduced taxes and we will see what we see.

 

i'm more interested in how the bill affects the whole country than i am in how it affects me personally

 

All deductions won't happen as long as Congress Critters get to use them. You know...those folks that get wealthy on .gov pay.

 

Me too, which is why I've read much of it.

Two things can be true at once.
Just like they were about the LAST multi-trillion dollar reconciliation bill!

The 'tax gains' portion is just as wildly exaggerated by the pubs as the Medicaid cuts are by the donkeys!
BOTH SIDES are misrepresenting this thing libelously!

I can understand this from people like Trump and AOC.
They're not 'exactly' what you would call 'crossword puzzles in ink' kind of people.....

HOWEVER (comma!!!!!)
Aren't journos supposed to be educated?

THEY do not have the excuse of being less intelligent or misinformed...... Just Sayin!

 

Look, I used 10% just as a simple number for a simple example. That's it.

I simply wanted to point out that you said there is still an EV kickback, of a substantial value, because the car interest deduction can apply to an EV as much as it can apply to any other car.

I was just pointing out that the amount you get back from the interest paid on a car, because its a deduction, means that your tax savings (aka kick back) is predicated on your tax bracket and that tax bracket is the effective discount. So a family in the 22% bracket gets back 22% of the interest they pay in the form of a refund after filing their taxes. And someone in the 10% bracket only gets back 10%.

But even so, your math on the tax brackets its a bit wrong in how you've framed it. These brackets are marginal. So you pay 10% on the first 23k, and then 12% on the next 73k (between 23 and 96). So if you make 96 your *average* tax rate will be less than but closer to 12% and if you make, for example, 27k your average tax rate will be just above 10%. Since you paid 10% on 23k and 12% on 4k. So probably something like 10.2, idk, I don't feel like grabbing a calculator right now.

either way, the amount you get back on interest paid will never be 10,000$, and almost no rich person will ever get that either. They'd need to be paying close to 30k in interest on US made cars to get 10k back if their *average* federal tax rate was 30%. And that's *after* all other deductions too. So realistically only millionaires who *take massive loans on a lot of new US made cars* will actually get any meaningful kickback at all.

Which fine - if the goal is to do away with incentives is fine. This does that. But don't pretend that there actually is still any kickback, of any measurable impact, that will push people to buy new US manufactured cars - EV or not. Because the actual benefit of this tax deduction is low.

If it were a tax *credit* that would be a different story. Since those apply *dollar for dollar* meaning you could deduct all interest paid over the course of the tax year, and get it back at the end of the year. That would be far more significant. For the average person who likely won't make more than 99k, and will stay in the 10-12% tax bracket range, getting back something like 2500$ a year every year of the car loan, would be huge. But that's not what this program is.

I don't think anyone is looking down on you or acting high and mighty. I am not at least. I'm a regular joe in Canada who doesn't make 6 figures either. I'm just trying to say that as an average joe, when my government took 5k off my final bill for the plugin prius because it qualified for EV tax credits, applied at time of sale, it made it possible to buy the car far more comfortably. If we didn't have that, we probably would have just gotten a regular hybrid model rather than the plugin.

 

Kickbacks at point of sale for EVs were always going to be temporary...just like they were with tax credits on hybrids back in the day. That's how incentives work.

 

agreed, just not intended to be this temporary

 

Hybrid "kickbacks" only lasted...what...4 or 5 years?

 

probably. idk why they ended. sales or political?

 

Don't know...don't care. They were gone when I bought my first one in 2010 though.

 

if they were around when i bought my '04 or '08, i missed it. i'm not opposed to bringing them back. anything to reduce emissions

 

There was a limit per manufacturer and expiration date.

 

i remember that. i think it was gone by the time i got mine