Featured Trump tariffs put the US auto industry in disarray

Most people don't but new cars. The rich are the ones who do. The rich have money.

That can't be true. High supply leads to low demand and low prices. Low supply leads to high demand and high prices.

Either the market is flooded or demand is high. You can't have both at the same time.

 

I see New cars all over local run down apartment complexes, and being driven by people on Food Stamps and many middle class people who are already 100's of thousands in debt. Your argument is a fallacy, since "new cars" could mean any brand and not just rich are buying them. In fact, I'd argue that more middle and low income people are getting into debt with cars than ever before while the Rich have large cushions of money to absorb the expense.

Sure it can. The used car market IS flooded, fact. The demand for cars IS high and since "most" sane people usually can't afford NEW cars the used market is winning. The only reason this is happening is the odd case of high NEW car prices and no one having money....otherwise you would be right if it were 2019.

 

when anyone finds evidence of the tariffs working, please post it here

 

The problem is voters can't agree to what the government should protect us from.

• Safety?
• Emissions?
• Prejudice and persecution?
• Poverty?
• Health?
• Homelessness?
• Famine?

I work for the county and they put in some bike baths and bike lanes. Since I moved here I've known some 11 people personally who have all been ran over by cars, either biking or walking. Many of them died from it or are severely crippled. Yet a lot of my coworkers scoff at the bike lanes and paths saying they don't do anything, that they're just a waste of taxpayers' money.

Another is public housing. A median wage in the area is not enough money for someone to buy a house. Do we let the market settle it all out or is the government doing the right thing and putting in some housing that some can afford? Many argue that government funded housing just turns into slums, but before they started addressing the situation I saw,20 guys all living in a dilapidated trailer, three teachers, unrelated to each other, sharing a studio apartment, and plenty of people moving into tents and RV's just to have a "home."

Yes, there are people who get new cars that shouldn't. But that isn't a statistic, but rather an observation.

The average new car buyer makes over $80,000 per year. 62% of new car buyers are also over 55 years old, who are either retired or close to retiring.

High new cars makes more people turn to used cars which makes the supply dwindle for two reasons:

• Fewer people are buying or leasing new cars meaning when those are resold there are fewer used cars being introduced into the used car market.
• More people are buying used cars than ever before.

That is why we have high used car prices, because lack of supply and increased demand.

 

IMHO; Tariffs is just a way of taxing US citizens, without calling it a consumption tax.
Everyone's effected because of global trade. Even if things are built in the US, most raw materials to create the products are sourced from other countries. In other words everything is hit by tariffs, except "previously owned" - but those prices go up too because new is now much more expensive. When we start importing our vegetables from Chile during the winter months, oil for gasoline, sugar, coffee to name a few.
To ease the inflation hit, Trump is trying to get Powell to lower interest rates. IMHO; keeping the rate where it is now is the only thing keeping a lid on inflation. Lowering the rate would goose demand and make everything affordable again, though individual debt load is a problem for another day. How do you think Putin is financing his war with Ukraine and propping up the ruble? You see how much that's worth....

YMMV

 

'to promote the general welfare' is a pretty vague aspiration. define it as you will.

 

Those are in the range of a used Tesla from Tesla and less than the $15 k of my 2017 BMW i3-REx bought two years ago. A $4750 (?) tax credit until Sept if. Bought from dealer.

Bob Wilson

Bob Wilson

 

but much easier and cheaper to repair

 

Yep, this is why I don't but new cars, and probably never will. The most expensive car loan I got once was $10,000. Even if interest goes back to what it was, and even if you adjust for inflation and my wage increases since then, a +$20,000 car is still unaffordable for me, especially once you add in the insurance.

That, and some of those cars I would want to buy anyway. They killed the stick in the Nissan Versa and I don't trust their automatics and thus is probably it's last year. The Chevy Trax looks like a nightmare waiting to happen with its engine and brakes. The Corolla is about the only reliable car in their, but it's about $9,000 more than what I can afford.

 

Okay, but I didn't post the list for you.

The list is to show yes you can still buy a new car at a reasonable price.
The Kia K4 for $23,000 gets over 40 mpg and comes with a 10 year powertrain/engine warranty and 5 year 60,000 miles on everything else.
Has most every available safety feature you can get already included.

The bullet proof and very economical Toyota Corolla clocks in at right around $24,000 and very well might be one of the best cars a person can buy at any price.

An enterprising/motivated individual who knows how to negotiate can beat these prices - Edmonds recommends in our area to only pay $22,000 for a new 2025 Corolla.

 

Even though I put myself as an example, I still don't believe the average American should be buying cars that expensive. Historically we've had cars in the $10,000 to $20,000 range when adjusting for inflation. $24,000 is much more than an aircooled VW Beetle or a Geo Metro back in the day. Sure, Corolla is a better car in many ways, but that doesn't take away its high initial price, nor does it address the fact that insurance is multiple times more expensive than it ever has been.

If you take the median wage and apply a car rule, like the 10-4-20 rule, your average American might be able to afford a brand new car like a Corolla, but should not be doing so. $24,000 is, what? $450 per month if you have good credit for a 5-year-loan? Then add another $200 per month for insurance Average Toyota Corolla car insurance cost for 2025. At 35 mpg, and 14,000 miles a year and $3.16 per gallon, that's $100 per month for fuel. Then add $121 per month average (as according to Edmunds for first 5 years) for maintenance and repairs and taxes. We're now at $820 per month for owning a new Toyota Corolla. A full-time median wage worker takes home some $4,000 per month after taxes, and potentially even less after other benefits. Slap on the cost of rent/mortgage, food, medical, kids, etc., and I don't see the average American being able to afford a base, brand-new Corolla reasonably.

 

That is your opinion/experience and I respect it.

I see many young Americans and Legal immigrants who are not only making it they are being very successful at getting their start and well on their way to their American Dream.
They are determined to be successful on their own terms.

 

I only posted statistics. I don't make up the statistics.

That isn't a statistic, just an opinion based on your observations. It doesn't matter how many of those people you see make six-digit figures, the average American doesn't and has little chance of ever doing so.

I don't see the Boomers' narrative that "where there's a will there a way" and that "any American can obtain the American Dream with enough effort" as having any validity currently. Inflation has outpaced wages, pure and simple. The average college graduate is statistically now worse off economically than the the average non-graduate in terms of overall wages vs. debt. Many jobs that would have gotten you a comfortable lifestyle, such as owning a house, raising a family, and buying a brand new car, no longer pay that much.

 

I was a "below average" American...and I did it.

 

Good for you. That's one case in 340,100,000.

I'm bilingual, work full-time for the government, many days working overtime as it is, have a CDL with various endorsements, have zero debt, have a credit score of over 800, and am loyal enough to my employer to be recognized in the paper for working at the same job and serving my community for the past 15 years. And yet, I still don't make much more than the median wage, there is only one place for sale within a 100 mile radius that I might be elegible to get a loan on, but wouldn't be able to even if approved, I'm behind on where I should be with my retirement, and still don't see how buying a new car makes any sense even though I have over $20,000 just in savings.

 

Perhaps doing my early kid days on welfare and being a street rat for several after that enhanced my drive and motivation to do what others said I could not.

 

Neither of my post were meant for you - they were references for the thread and others posting here and certainly include my observations.

I am very encouraged by the many industrious and successful youngsters and legal immigrants to our country who are actively pursuing and enjoying their versions of the American dream- it is inspiring!

Incidentally - I am not a statistic - I am a person- I choose to be successful in my own way - put an obstacle in my way I will find a way over it, suffer a setback , then I will find a way to learn from it, fail like I have many times before - I will learn to be better - I will not be a statistic - I will be a person of my own making enjoying my personal American Dream and help others to do the same if I am able to assist them.

 

This may be one of those cases where it makes a huge difference whether a person is talking about the mean ("average") or about the median.

The average is highly sensitive to outliers and skew. If you have a country with a few hundred million people, and the median (the income half of them make less than and half make more than) is around $42k, but then in the half making more than that, there's a fraction making over ten times that, and a slice making over a hundred times that, and a sliver making a thousand times that and up, the median stays what it is, but even the small number of big outliers will drag the mean ("average") up closer to $64k.

Median Personal Income in the United States (MEPAINUSA646N) | FRED | St. Louis Fed
Mean Personal Income in the United States (MAPAINUSA646N) | FRED | St. Louis Fed

If you are an average holder of a professional degree, and you are either in a full-time gig or male, you are making six figures lately.

 

The used car market and the new car market are both flooded with product and despite the economy the demand is for both, but people gravitate towards the used. High demand AND high supply. I’m in the industry in a round about way and am paying attention.

Also, $24k is NOT very expensive for a new car like a Corolla. They have been that price for over a decade in California. I know, because I leased one in 2016 ( base model) and after interest it was still in that range if I wanted to buy it. I think you have to do some homework on this subject yet, since all of your bullet points are observations not statistics..

 

Mine was when 2020 hit. Before then my wife and I were obtaining our dreams, which may be different than everyone else's. Then suddenly we ended up with two orphaned nephews who also went through much more abuse and neglect than just losing their parents. Trying to make a future for them has been utterly difficult and will never be close to what most would call "the American Dream." As I said several times, I will do all that I can, because that's all that I can do.

The situation has given me a taste of what many others are going through financially. I had basically a restart, as my goals and lifestyle completely changed. Those that are growing up now or starting from scratch DO NOT HAVE the opportunities that those of a generation or two ago had.

I'd like to see any Boomer just donate all his or her savings, house, social security earnings, and all other benefits and equity and start from scratch and then come back and say how full the USA is of opportunities for our young ones.

Can we agree to disagree? With the cheapest new cars being more expensive than since before the 1950's when adjusting for inflation I just cannot agree that there are new cars in an affordable or economic category. Above $20,000 in 2025 is what many in the industry consider outside of the econo-car segment.

Sorry, that's still a paradox to me. You can only have one or the other, not both: