Featured Nissan motor analysis Munro

Discussion in 'Prius, Hybrid, EV and Alt-Fuel News' started by bwilson4web, Aug 1, 2025.

  1. hill

    hill High Fiber Member

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2005
    20,944
    8,676
    54
    Location:
    Montana & Nashville, TN
    Vehicle:
    2018 Chevy Volt
    Model:
    Premium
    One odd thing in the video (from a Munroe source - one who is supposed to know) was the comment how nissan has learned a lot - being available (in so many words) longer than any other. The Leaf came out in 2010. So...... Really? We were driving EV S10s at disney in the 90s. The Tesla roadster came out in 2008. RAV4ev? somewhere around 97. Sold to the public in 2002 - etc. You get the point. Maybe this guy is new.
    ;)
    .
     
  2. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

    Joined:
    May 11, 2005
    112,687
    51,293
    0
    Location:
    boston
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    Plug-in Base
    has nissan really learned much? their offerings are still near the bottom of the heap
     
  3. T1 Terry

    T1 Terry Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2015
    807
    420
    0
    Vehicle:
    2006 Prius
    Model:
    Plug-in Advanced
    Nissan is the car part of a very big company, maybe they were into the electric stuff in heavy equipment and buses and not the vehicle side. I know all the big trucks that work in pit mining are electric with a big diesel/gen set to power them. The son of our friends who lived next door, did the first dual apprenticeship with one of the big mining companies in plant mechanics and electric motor/generator both maintenance and electrical theory, some 15 yrs ago ..... the idea was to reduce the workforce required so one person could diagnose and fix the problem, rather than one group saying the problem was the other camps issue, nit their problem .....
    By the time he was a 4th yr apprentice, he was already designing better ways to get the two things working together and better modulise them into separate plug and play modules to make routine swap out maintenance possible to overcome the drive it till it stopped system they had prior ..... The whole hybrid and pure electric has been around for a long time, we are only seeing it venture into the small vehicle industry on late, big oil made sure of that .....

    T1 Terry
     
  4. austingreen

    austingreen Senior Member

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2009
    13,648
    4,194
    0
    Location:
    Austin, TX, USA
    Vehicle:
    2018 Tesla Model 3
    Model:
    N/A

    I think if Nissan had learned a lot they would have a better selling EV platform. They like Toyota and gm have had a lot of time ;-) The leaf was not a good vehicle but it was cheap comparatively. That turned many customers off. Tesla found a way to reduce costs over the years and had induction motors from the beginning.

    The video was too long, so I didn't watch much but it looks like Nissan found a way to make the motor smaller, so its size is similar to a pm motor. That is an incremental change in the right direction but it doesn't seem to overcome other problems with Nissan's eve vs the competion. Hope one day Nissan gets it right, they could just copy the best of bad, lucid, Tesla, and Hyundai. I'm not sure what management is doing.
     
  5. John321

    John321 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2018
    1,408
    1,369
    0
    Location:
    Kentucky
    Vehicle:
    2008 Prius
    Model:
    Two
  6. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

    Joined:
    May 11, 2005
    112,687
    51,293
    0
    Location:
    boston
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    Plug-in Base
    by persecuting their fearless leader, the japanese government drove them into bankruptcy
     
  7. Isaac Zachary

    Isaac Zachary Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2018
    2,381
    1,180
    1
    Location:
    USA
    Vehicle:
    Other Hybrid
    Model:
    N/A
    Oddly, even after experimenting the range and battery problems with our 2013 Leaf, the Wife and I are much more likely to buy a Leaf again instead of a Tesla or any other EV, mainly because of the cost factor.
     
    bwilson4web likes this.
  8. hill

    hill High Fiber Member

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2005
    20,944
    8,676
    54
    Location:
    Montana & Nashville, TN
    Vehicle:
    2018 Chevy Volt
    Model:
    Premium
    Yea - that really WAS bizarre
     
  9. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2005
    28,383
    16,057
    0
    Location:
    Huntsville AL
    Vehicle:
    2018 Tesla Model 3
    Model:
    Prime Plus
    Actually, I'm open to a Leaf when the Model 3 dies. But that will hopefully be about 5 years away and we'll have to do a "source selection survey." This assumes at age 80, no one has confiscated my driving license:
    • End of lease Tesla <whatever is efficient> with transfer of Full Self Driving
    • End of lease efficient <other EV>
    Bob Wilson
     
    Isaac Zachary likes this.
  10. T1 Terry

    T1 Terry Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2015
    807
    420
    0
    Vehicle:
    2006 Prius
    Model:
    Plug-in Advanced
    May be the mighty MG will be allowed into the US by then ..... quite a range to choose from .... love my MG4

    T1 Terry
     
  11. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2005
    28,383
    16,057
    0
    Location:
    Huntsville AL
    Vehicle:
    2018 Tesla Model 3
    Model:
    Prime Plus
    If the MG comes in, so too the Chinese … point, game, set, match. There are some very attractive Chinese EVs.

    Bob Wilson
     
    Isaac Zachary likes this.
  12. hill

    hill High Fiber Member

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2005
    20,944
    8,676
    54
    Location:
    Montana & Nashville, TN
    Vehicle:
    2018 Chevy Volt
    Model:
    Premium
    There are some attractive iPhones as well. Got to draw the line somewhere. We do whatever we can. Or not
     
  13. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

    Joined:
    May 11, 2005
    112,687
    51,293
    0
    Location:
    boston
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    Plug-in Base
    yeah, i'm rethinking the whole apple thing after the latest wh fiasco. wish i hadn't purchased a new macbook recently :(
     
  14. Isaac Zachary

    Isaac Zachary Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2018
    2,381
    1,180
    1
    Location:
    USA
    Vehicle:
    Other Hybrid
    Model:
    N/A
    I've been eyeballing the Framework lineup of laptops. Those are more my style.

    Though some of their parts are made in China and those tariffs have been affecting them.

    As for Nissan, they're the only company that I've thought about buying a new car from other than Mitsubishi.
     
  15. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2005
    28,383
    16,057
    0
    Location:
    Huntsville AL
    Vehicle:
    2018 Tesla Model 3
    Model:
    Prime Plus
    A "product" has no politics beyond what was evident when it was purchased. Corporate management has as much of a right to go nuts after our purchases as anyone else. Certainly there has been a lot of buyer's remorse on the Tesla side by some.

    In my case, I owned TSLA stock but realized the CEO had gotten "distracted." That was my clue to selling my last TSLA stock and buying a solar roof. The capital gains tax neutralized by the solar roof credit. Yet I still have a 2019 Model 3 and didn't think twice about buying a $9k replacement battery a couple of months ago to keep it running another 5-6 years. I need cheap transportation until someone decides to take my drivers license away.

    I make my political statements by donating to political campaigns. One rare exception, I gave $1 to a Donald Trump fund last year and continue to receive SMS texts soliciting money. Free to delete without reading, I suspect they have spent orders of magnitude more sending me their lies that I smile as I toss into the bit bucket.

    Bob Wilson
     
  16. T1 Terry

    T1 Terry Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2015
    807
    420
    0
    Vehicle:
    2006 Prius
    Model:
    Plug-in Advanced
    The Tesla battery only lasted 6 yrs? At $9k I'm guessing it was the 12v battery ;):D

    T1 Terry
     
  17. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2005
    28,383
    16,057
    0
    Location:
    Huntsville AL
    Vehicle:
    2018 Tesla Model 3
    Model:
    Prime Plus
    That was the traction battery and it was "cooked" by a failed valve in the 5-way coolant bottle. I didn't realize it at the time and when I eventually did, too late.

    The Nickel Cobalt Aluminum (NCA) chemistry in the 2070 Tesla cells age even if in storage. So the expected 50 kWh new battery in 2019 became a 44-46 kWh replacement battery. So now I'm applying lessons learned from my Prius days to minimize the charge-discharge cycle:
    • More efficient tires - longer lasting and lower rolling resistance
    • Absolute aero wheel covers - home made, 18", modified pizza pans
    • More efficient driving profile:
      • Charge stops more frequently, 10 minutes or less, for a higher block-to-block speed
      • GOOD (65 mph, Interstate) or CHEAP (48 mph direct) and avoid FAST (75 mph, Interstate)
      • Stay at cheapest motel and use nearby SuperCharger for next segment
    A Tesal software release earlier this year included a "battery test." I could not run it because of the stuck coolant valve. After I fixed it, the battery test showed capacity down to about 40 kWh and dropping. That is what happens to a "cooked" battery.

    Looking at all my options, the $9k replacement battery was cheaper than any new or used EV I might buy. With my Model 3 tuning, I'm achieving better that Lucid, 23 kWh/100 mi, and Hyundai, 24 kWh/100 mi efficiency. FYI, I'm not done Model 3 tuning, yet.

    Bob Wilson
     
  18. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2005
    28,383
    16,057
    0
    Location:
    Huntsville AL
    Vehicle:
    2018 Tesla Model 3
    Model:
    Prime Plus
    Let me explain this chart:
    upload_2025-8-11_8-26-28.png
    • At ~80 mph, my Model 3 drives for about 75 minutes before needing a 10 minute charge
      • 80 mph * (75/60) = 100 miles
      • 100 miles / ((75+10)/60) = 70.6 mph
    • At ~80 mph, my Model 3 drives for about 110 minutes before needing a 20 minute charge
      • 80 mph * (110/60) = 147 miles
      • 147 / ((110+20)/60) = 68 mph
    • At ~80 mph, my Model 3 drives for about 130 minutes before needing a 30 minute charge
      • 80. mph * (130/60) = 173 miles
      • 173 / ((130+30)/60) = 65 mph
    There are similar lines for ~60 mph and ~40 mph. What happens is the rate of charge decreases as the duration increases. So the fastest block-to-block speed maximizes the rate of charge by using shorter charge sessions. However, this reduces the time and miles traveled by that charge.

    This chart uses my Model 3 benchmark test results with these fundamental assumptions:
    • maximum 30 minute charge session, as long as I care to take at a SuperCharger
    • maximum 180 mile range, ~3 hours of driving
    I've tested the chart by a series to trips from my Huntsville home to Brentwood SuperChargers in Nashville TN:
    • FAST - typically 75 mph over the posted 70 mph Interstate speed limit
    • GOOD - typically 65 mph under the posted 70 mph Interstate speed limit
    • CHEAP - minimize Interstate using the State roads direct from home to Brentwood
    I am a former Prius owner who did a lot of vehicle tuning and benchmarks between 2005-2019. So my Model 3 has exceptionally long lasting, low rolling resistance tires with home made, absolute aero, wheel covers. I use passenger side windows for cabin temperature control. I also use Full Self Driving for everything but the parking lots. Ordinary, untuned Model 3s would have trouble matching my chart and benchmark results but I have to pay my bills, not yours. Regardless, the pattern should be clear.

    Shorter charging sessions starting from a low state of charge will give a faster, block-to-block speed. This is because the higher initial charge rates shorten the overall trip time. I use a fixed, 40 mile reserve to the next fast DC charger(*).

    A more sophisticated model would include exit Interstate and return to Interstate minutes. But these are nothing we have much control over so I choose to leave it out of the model. I am only interested in the two things I can control:
    • Speed between fast DC chargers
    • Duration at a fast DC charger
    Bob Wilson

    * - If my projected reserve is less than 40 miles as I approach the next charger, I slow down early several MPH until it remains constant. This becomes more aggressive at 30 and 20 mile reserve range. At 10 mile reserve, I find a closer, alternate charger before going further.

    If the projected reserve increases over the 40 miles, I have increased speed by several MPH until it remains constant or decreases to the the 40 mile reserve. For example, coming down a mountain or a heavy tail wind.
     
  19. Isaac Zachary

    Isaac Zachary Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2018
    2,381
    1,180
    1
    Location:
    USA
    Vehicle:
    Other Hybrid
    Model:
    N/A
    Now that that happened, would you say it would be easy to tell if it happened again before causing damage.

    I've thought about getting a Tesla, maybe an old Model S, but the thought of having to suddenly pay thousands on a battery is holding me back.
     
  20. hill

    hill High Fiber Member

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2005
    20,944
    8,676
    54
    Location:
    Montana & Nashville, TN
    Vehicle:
    2018 Chevy Volt
    Model:
    Premium
    Professor Kelly recommends Tesla's tool box 3 to diagnose things before they happen. I think it's been (for a fee - as most manufacturers do now) available for a few years - from tesla.


    .
     
    Isaac Zachary likes this.