Lithium or sodium for replacement

yes. Not a single nimh, lithium or sodium aftermarket battery lasts much more than 2 years but costs close to a 10-15 year oem. End of story.

 

So you've tried them all?

 

RJP, I bought a well done, rebuilt , NiMh battery for my 2004 Prius ($1600) in 2012. It was still working well at 288k miles when I opted for a new 2016 Prius. You are being a bit pessimistic.

JeffD

 

I said aftermarket. Yes mix and match used oem can be better than aftermarket.

 

Not sure which Team Jack member I'm responding to, but does it even matter?

Yes, but we can only use 1/3 of the overall pack capacity with the OEM BSU, due to the much larger voltage range over SoC.
I made a video on this.

Are you referring to current? If so, that's not what my data shows.
I made a video on this.

In my testing, I was barely able to charge just 1 Wh (yes one watt hour, not kWh) into a below freezing pack.
I made a video on this.

I made numerous videos highlighting numerous issues with sodium in NiMH cars.

In my testing the NexPower sodium cells were substantially worse when charging/discharging at high current.
I made a video on this.

In my testing, the NexPower sodium cells were the worst performing cell I've ever tested. I had to abort my test after just QTY3 cycles due to cell overheating. The glue – I mean 'thermal paste' – adhering these cells together was literally melting.
I made a video on this.

I don't have test data because the cell overheated too quickly. I could test at a lower C, but it would take forever. Also, my test results wouldn't be comparable to all the other cells I've tested (which all undergo the same abusive long term test currents).

Please let me know the model number and I will verify this claim. I've tested three different sodium cells and they just can't handle this much current without quickly overheating. Lithium cells have substantially lower impedance.

Also note that you'll get at most 3.5 Ah out of these cells in an OEM NiMH Prius, due to sodium's wide voltage range across SoC.
I made a video on this.

 

This guy mudder still here bashing other products while trying to push his?

Had to post since some think I hacked into another account but thats nonsense.

I work full time and have a life with a family.


Stay ahead of the curve and drive into the future, leave the old behind...

 

Hackers never die!!!

 

This guy mudder prefers "providing technical evaluation of poorly designed products..."

As of this writing I don't sell a competing product.
Not trying to push my product, but rather I'm trying to help educate people so they don't waste their money on shoddy products.
Since we last spoke, Jack has discontinued yet another product (V3 sodium)... so maybe I'm onto something? Can't wait to see what NexPower V4 beholds! Who knows, maybe it'll be Leyden jars? Whatever it is, I will review it.

Same, except I'm retired.

 

BAM!!! Mudder brings the truth! V4 with the planned absolesence strategy.

 

Frustrating yes, but still I’d at least consider the option, say having Toyota dealership supply and install the replacement battery. It used to be if they installed, for say around $500 labour, the warranty went from one year to three. At least in part that labour cost is buying more warranty.

And of course, if they install, there’s no finger pointing if there is problems.

 

Agreed. I don't think this was well considered when the mod opted for a more "hands off" policy.

 

Of course, another option is to replace dead cells with used replacements. It still may work well enough to maintain good fuel economy. At least for a time.

 

If you like playing wack a mole, and pulling that thing out and putting it back in.
It takes a lot of time and work. And you're going to have to end up replacing all of
them sooner or later.
I understand money is a factor, for most of us, so I can understand why some do that.
But most of those blocks they get are older, and you don't know what condition they are in.

 

The best option is always to spend the money, but that's not always possible.

 

Not everything is nexpower. You clearly haven't actually tested any other sodium ion cells. They come in varying charge/discharge ratings( yes, obviously current) and can have really low resistance. Sodium ion stole your wallet or something? Not sure if you could crap on it much more than you are. 30% of 10ah is still 3ah usable. The nimh only has about 60% usable of 6.5ah cells. That is fairly close and definitely isn't important when it comes to how it is utilized for fuel efficiency. A single regen event won't hit max usable range so I fail to see a problem.

 

Correct, and I have never made that claim.
Not sure what your point is.

Not technically true. Here are the three sodium cells I've tested:
-NexPower prototype V3 cell, and;
-HINA 32140 sodium cell, which performed identically to NexPower's prototype V3 cells, and;
-NexPower production V3 cell.

However, I don't see what point you're getting at because I've never represented my findings as applying to ALL sodium cells... just that NexPower's V3 sodium cells have higher resistance than lithium cells, including the V2.5 NexPower LFP cells. To be clear, my sodium statements are describing the nexPower products I've tested.

Please show me a 32140 sodium cell rated to handle more than 100 amps discharge, or more than 30 amps charge. My statements regarding these current limits were entirely focused on the 32140 form factor. Again, I don't see what point you're trying to make.

To be clear, I'm not crapping on sodium ion as a technology...
...I'm crappy specifically on NexPower's V3 sodium product, which was discontinued in under a year, so...

My previous review of NexPower's V3 product was quite thorough... I could probably find more issues by spending more time, but what's the point? That product had severe high level issues, so why rearrange the chairs on the titanic? I suppose you've correctly interpreted how I feel about these shoddily designed NexPower products.

That's more than a 2x difference... IMO that's not "fairly close".

Suppose you are correct and this huge energy storage difference "definitely isn't important".
If there's no difference, why doesn't Toyota halve the hybrid battery size in all their hybrids?
This would cut their cell costs in half.
Seriously, you're 'selling' a drawback as a feature. Is your background in sales?

I fail to see any compelling point you've made.
You are misrepresenting my talking points and then attacking your own tail.

 

You have to realize there's some people out there just like to bash everybody else to try to make themselves look better.
They think they know everything and they're always right.
No matter you say or do you won't change their mind?
You're just beating a dead horse.

Testing, and using our two different things.I've been using the sodium body and I'm extremely happy with it.
It's working exactly as it's claimed to be working.

So unless you just like to argue, it's best to just use the ignore feature and move on with your life.

 

I love this narrative that completely disregards the engineering concerns I raise...
...and replaces them with character attacks. You're shooting the messenger.

On the contrary, we could have a technical discussion if anyone took the time to respond to my technical concerns.
Instead, Team Jack attacks my character.

If I'm wrong about something, respond with a technical counterpoint. Literally pick any claim I've made and respond to the technical shortcomings you think might exist. If that ever happens in good faith, I will respond in good faith. Honestly that would be refreshing.

Correct, and testing with solid engineering principals is the better method.
Real world validation is typically the last step in the design cycle, after verification is performed through rigorous testing.
Proper testing is critical to uncover "low odds, high risk" issues.
Users shouldn't be the ones validating a design.

I'm glad yours is still working.
Based on the real world data so far, most of them are still working.
Time isn't kind to poorly designed products.

That is certainly one valid option to ignore the concerns I raise.
I'm amazed to see your response, as it indicates you haven't done so yourself

 

Which NexPower V3 sodium-ion battery do you have in your Prius. Do you have the two-piece design that is no longer available for sale OR do you have the GT blade design that is still available for sale? My curiosity is getting the better of me, and I wanted to ask.