Can ABS cause slight drag on one wheel with no hint that it is doing so?

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Care, Maintenance and Troubleshooting' started by pasadena_commut, Sep 3, 2025 at 11:49 PM.

  1. pasadena_commut

    pasadena_commut Senior Member

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    Hypothetically...

    If an ABS sensor on one wheel was damaged just a tiny bit, for instance when a wheel bearing was replaced, is it possible that it might send a signal that was almost but not quite perfect to the ABS unit, and if so, might the ABS unit respond in such a way that the brake on that wheel was only very slightly applied? All of this going on silently, with no warning light or code?

    I'm imagining this as the sensor sending a series of evenly spaced pulses and the damage causes just one (or a small number of adjacent ones) to be noisy and so instead of 1 or 2 rising edges per unit time there are many more, let's say 5. The ABS unit seeing 5 on that one wheel and 1 or 2 on all the others starts to do "wheel is slipping" and begins to squeeze the caliper there, but before it can really get going it is back to regular pulses for the rest of that rotation. Unclear why it wouldn't light up the indicator, unless perhaps it is doing so, but at a duty cycle of 1 in 100, making it too dim or brief to see. I'm thinking the ABS unit should throw some sort of code for this scenario though.
     
  2. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

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    For the specific scenario you're (over)thinking about, I'd say the answer is 'no'. Anything the system does in response to an unexpected wheel sensor input is going to be considered an activation of ABS or VSC (and appear in the ABS History screen) or a fault (and produce a trouble code and warning lights).

    But if you are chasing a slight drag at one wheel, why would you (over)think about it being somehow a response to a wheel speed sensor anyway? The brake actuator contains a bunch of small electrically-controlled valves that regulate brake fluid pressure out to the lines. A valve slightly impaired with corrosion or a contaminant could cause your symptom. So could a rubber brake hose that has started delaminating (hasn't happened to me, but I've read they can form a rubber flap inside that acts as a bit of a one-way valve). Also a caliper itself can be sticking, or (different from sticking) have a piston that moves freely but doesn't retract when pressure is released (a function of the square-cut rubber piston seal).

    You should be able to find a lot of threads here with ideas for troubleshooting a dragging brake.
     
  3. pasadena_commut

    pasadena_commut Senior Member

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    Yes, chasing a slight drag. After eliminating tires as the problem I finally took the car to a mechanic I trust for more difficult problems and he reproduced the issue but couldn't find anything that clearly accounted for it. The drag is slight enough that he couldn't even see the difference in brake pad wear between the two sides over 10k miles. Said he couldn't feel the difference in drag between the two sides and couldn't hear any sounds from the bearing. Not surprised he couldn't feel it - to heat the wheel by only 10 degrees F wouldn't require very much friction at all. Anyway, he said the lubrication on the brake components didn't look up to snuff, so he redid that, and we will see if that fixes it. Fingers crossed. Had him change the brake fluid while he was at it.

    He did say that the ABS can sometimes cause strange problems like this. If the problem is ABS related I suspect that it would only kick in once the car is on (probably wasn't when he was spinning the wheels by hand) and might not show up until the wheels are spinning at a reasonable speed. Anyway, one possibility is that the shop which changed the bearing slightly munched the ABS ring on the wheel. I mean, there is a 25% chance at random, but odd that the wheel that has this problem is the one that had a bearing changed.

    My impression was that if it was his car he would have waited until it got worse before trying to fix it. Problem is, with my luck that would happen 200 miles from anywhere on a vacation trip, so I prefer to fix problems early.

    ABS history screen is in Techstream somewhere? How long are the events stored there?
     
  4. pasadena_commut

    pasadena_commut Senior Member

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    After a 10 minute drive today the same wheel was again found to be 10 F hotter. (Hand test, didn't have a thermometer with me.) Rats.

    The issue with rubber in the brake line isn't like this. What happens there is that the driver steps on the brake which pushes fluid into the piston, but when the foot comes off the brake the flap of rubber swings over and blocks movement of the fluid away from the piston, so it stays engaged. Pretty obvious when a brake is engaged when it shouldn't be. That is not what is happening here. At least it wasn't when we looked for it before. Put the front of the car up on jacks, turned it on, put it in neutral, spun the front wheels (base line resistance), stepped on the brake (they would not spin), released the brake, immediately spin the wheels (like the baseline, at least as far as we could tell).

    On the plus side, 10 F more isn't going to damage anything mechanical, although I guess it will pull down the MPG slightly. I wonder how many watts it takes to heat a wheel 10 degrees? A wheel and the attached knuckle and rotor is a pretty huge heat sink and has cooling air blowing over it whenever the heat is being generated.
     
  5. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

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    As far as I know, it just always remembers the four most recent ABS or TRAC activations. The oldest one is forgotten when another one occurs.
     
  6. pasadena_commut

    pasadena_commut Senior Member

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    I will take a look at some point - when it is a little cooler out. If it shows 4 (which it should if this is happening all the time) then I'll unhook the 12V battery and see how long it takes for them to return. I don't think I have ever even looked at the brake data fields in Techstream. If it has ones for brake activation and ABS sensor data at each wheel that would be helpful.
     
  7. Hayslayer

    Hayslayer Member

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    Could also be something as simple as a disc being at the higher end of runout tolerance. A 10 degree difference is not all that significant. It could even be just difference in airflow around that rake assembly due to airpath interference. It could be that brake generates slightly more heat when stopping and you're seeing it when you stop to check temps. A "rubbing" pad will be untouchable and burn your fingerprints off.

    Get a good beam type or digital torque wrench and spin the tire 360 several times using a lugnut and see if you can feel anything.
     
  8. pasadena_commut

    pasadena_commut Senior Member

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    Interesting idea. I do have a big beam torque wrench, have to think about how to do this without it smacking into the ground.
     
  9. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

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    If you are pursuing any kind of hunch involving a problem with the wheel speed sensor signals, a natural idea would be to go through the skid ECU's signal check procedure. Look in the repair manual under the procedures to replace wheel hubs or replace the sensors; each of those procedures should have a final step that's a cross-reference to the checkout procedure instructions.

    I don't have a gen 2 repair manual open at the moment. There are such check procedures in the gen 1 and gen 3 manuals, so I would be very surprised if gen 2 lacks one.

    The basic outline is you start by putting the ECU into a special checkout mode, and then you drive the car in a specific pattern shown in the manual, which involves straight driving and turning. When you complete the driving pattern you get a pass / fail indication, and if it's fail, there are specific trouble codes (that only ever appear in this mode) indicating what failed. The standards for these codes are much more strict than in normal operation, to detect even very slight errors.

    If you complete that process and the result is pass, that's a good sign to move on to other hunches.