Built to Last

Discussion in 'Fred's House of Pancakes' started by Paul Gregory, Sep 7, 2025 at 6:53 PM.

  1. Paul Gregory

    Paul Gregory Senior Member

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    Most things nowadays are not built to last. We all know that, but anyone calling it "planned obsolescence" is usually laughed out of the room. I wish that more companies would understand this principle, and forget about the "short term profit" business model.

    The John Deere Model D tractor was virtually indestructible. They were first built in 1923 and discontinued in 1953, because basically, everyone who wanted one already had one. But John Deere did not suffer from lack of sales; the brand had cemented a reputation for building the best machines in the industry, and that reputation has carried them to the top of the industry today.

    I believe Toyota adopted a somewhat similar philosophy, because their vehicles have ranked as the most reliable for many years, and they have been the number one automaker in the world more than once.

    Another example is the PC-6 Porter aircraft, made by the Swiss company, Pilatus. They were made from 1959 to 2022, when they were discontinued. Not because they were obsolete; nearly every one ever built is still flying. But this has not hurt Pilatus at all; they are a very successful company, selling a variety of aircraft, which have an excellent reputation.
    Pilatus PC-6 Porter
     
  2. mikefocke

    mikefocke Prius v Three 2012, Avalon 2011

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    Many farms of the size that the D was suited for got swallowed up by suburbs and larger farms that needed larger equipment.

    My wife's father sold J D farm equipment in western PA. His farm got bought by the county for a park that has yet to be built 50 years later..
     
  3. Paul Gregory

    Paul Gregory Senior Member

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    Two brothers near here decided to go into the snow plowing business a few years ago. They got 2 John Deere Ds, because of the low maintenance costs. They made over a million dollars, apparently, and bought a much bigger farm.
     
  4. ETC(SS)

    ETC(SS) The OTHER One Percenter.....

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    Their lawn tractors are the same garbage that everyone else is selling, but the reason that I bought one is that they at least are made in the USA and they do have an extensive parts network.

    In addition to being the second worse company on the planet for "planned obsolescence" and up-selling, JD is one of the more horrible companies with "right to repair."
    My company used JD/Kohler generators for some of our smaller offices and they're hot garbage.
    Like all modern diesels, the engine is moderately decent but the electronics are for crap, which.......shuts down the engine.
     
  5. Paul Gregory

    Paul Gregory Senior Member

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    Blame the business consultants with MBAs, who are always in the room to say, "but it works."
     
  6. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    appliances are my gripe
     
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  7. Paul Gregory

    Paul Gregory Senior Member

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    I remember when the Maytag repairman nothing to do. Then the effin' MBA business consultants had their way.
     
  8. PriusCamper

    PriusCamper Senior Member

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    I agree with you... But 20 years from now I'll bet you $1K that Gen5 Prius will be the least reliable of all the versions built and Gen2 Prius will still be #1.
     
  9. PriusCamper

    PriusCamper Senior Member

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    It's always privileged wealthy kids that earn an MBA without debt that are most eager to ensure that hard work and innovation is more meaningless than how wealth can be used for greed and exploitation to invalidate substance in anti-social hateful ways.
     
  10. John321

    John321 Senior Member

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    I earned a degree in Engineering through getting educational credit for 15 years in the mechanical/electrical/plumbing trade and supplemental college work.

    A MBA takes at least 5 years academic study, interning, and then starting out at the bottom of the job ladder and working your way up to make decisions at an impactful level - I have nothing but respect for people who work their way up into those positions and responsibilities.

    At the Companies I came from many line workers went to college after getting off work and got their college degrees and eventually progressed into Management roles
    EX:
    The current President of Toyota Motor Manufacturing of Kentucky - the largest Toyota Automotive Facility in the world- was a line worker in the Assembly Department and got into the bottom level of Management after earning his degree while working as a line worker and progressed to his current role as President of the Facility.

    Our society is much better for those type people whose hard work makes companies successful.

    Both line workers who assemble the product and management/engineering are equally responsible for a company's success.

    I would imagine the leaders and motivated individuals of the world spend -0 hours- on the internet complaining and trolling successful people.
     
  11. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

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    A washing machine I bought around 2011 started doing weird things a couple years ago.

    A replacement logic board from Whirlpool was around $600, more than I'd paid for the whole washer.

    But the capacitor I replaced on the logic board cost me about a buck at the local electronics shoppe.

    I also found a couple of intermediate solutions, mail-in outfits that repair the boards (or cross-ship you one they've already repaired).
     
  12. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    back in the 70's, appliances almost lasted forever. we bought used fridge, d/w, stove and washer/dryer.
    as our finances improved in the 80's, we replaced everything new, even though the old ones still worked fine.
    we actually sold the old ones again. the new ones all broke down withing years, and have been like that ever since.
    refrigerators are my nemesis :mad:
     
  13. John321

    John321 Senior Member

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    Moden appliances have many more features than the older ones - they are also much more efficient.

    A modern Heat Pump water Heater will use up to 10 times less energy that an old-fashioned water heater and one with a glass lining and stainless-steel heating coil/elements will easy last 10 years.

    Many newer furnaces are approaching 99% efficiency and with a stainless steel heat exchanger will outlast any older furnace.

    Older top loading washing machines had many issues when maintaining them and they used enormous amounts of water during their cycles. They can't begin to compete with how clean the newer washers get your clothing and their energy efficiency.
     
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  14. PriusTech

    PriusTech Member

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    I bought a budget GE washer at home depot for $550. washed 12 loads over a period of about 14 months and the thing dies with a 1 year warranty. Diagnosed a main computer circuit board, costs $175. Read the customer comments, many had the same problem. There was a factory rep answering comments, oh I'm sorry, we're here to help, oh that's unfortunate, oh we care about our customers.

    Previous machine was a Maytag with mechanical controls. Used for 22 years, zero problems, and left it when I sold the house.

    Talked to a local appliance sales and repair shop. The owner said it's planned obsolescence. He said for a while it was like the 2nd gen Prius dash display where you could replace 1 small component on the main board, but then they started sealing the whole board to where it's not repairable

    Planned obsolescence started with light bulbs, now they have printers and paper shredders with electronic timers that turn the machine off at a certain time.

     
    #14 PriusTech, Sep 8, 2025 at 1:47 PM
    Last edited: Sep 8, 2025 at 1:54 PM
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  15. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    and everything has at least one led light that you can't turn off. there must be 50 in our house.

    when my dad was a kid, the power company gave free light bulbs
     
  16. PriusTech

    PriusTech Member

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    Toyota was one of the first to go to timing chains and discontinuing timing belts. They are an engineering driven / led company as opposed to CEO finances driven. The 2nd gen Prius is an industry leader for minimum maintenance. At one point Toyota asked the dealers if they wanted a zero maintenance vehicle and they declined saying the service / parts dept was a significant source of income.

    They are having trouble now because of the lingering effects of the Covid lockdowns and the diversification of the supply chain. The Takata airbags debacle was a problem from Mexico where they substituted a cheaper explosive propellant that degrades over time.

    I think there is also something called soft planned obsolescence. It's where something breaks or degrades that doesn't cause total vehicle breakdown but only affects something non critical or cosmetic. Like only light colored upholstery being offered that gets dirty, or a plastic trim piece that breaks or fails like the driver door checker. Like the dash display that blacks out but the car still runs. Anything that's annoying and makes you want to trade in the vehicle.

    On a side note you can get a 2nd gen Prius driver door checker on Rock Auto for $15, they are about $90 at the dealer and all the used ones like at PickNPull are worn out.
     
    #16 PriusTech, Sep 8, 2025 at 2:09 PM
    Last edited: Sep 8, 2025 at 2:33 PM
  17. PriusTech

    PriusTech Member

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    The engineer that invented key door dingers (that you can't turn off) should be locked in a room with 1000 key door dingers going off all at once.
     
  18. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

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    I remember having to fill in the washing machine timer discs with epoxy and file new notches into them though.

    I bought a used 70s fridge and kept it going for years which felt sort of frugal, until I finally bought a newer one around 2011 or do and realized I had easily spent its purchase price in electricity keeping the old one instead.

    The new one has needed a new evaporator fan once. I think I got the part for around $80.
     
  19. ColoradoBoo

    ColoradoBoo Senior Member

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    We have GE appliances, made in Mexico, and they seem to run fine....for a few years....gotta always buy the extended (4-year) warranty which is almost always needed.

    We are excited for GE to expand their plants in America and can't wait to replace these with "Made in America"...

    GE Appliances reshoring 1,000 jobs to US in historic $3B expansion
     
  20. Paul Gregory

    Paul Gregory Senior Member

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    My parents bought a Fairbanks Morse deep freeze in 1956. It was still working perfectly when we unplugged it last year.