Featured LIDAR business practices

Discussion in 'Prius, Hybrid, EV and Alt-Fuel News' started by bwilson4web, Feb 4, 2026.

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  1. fuzzy1

    fuzzy1 Senior Member

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    Not everything that should be avoided, has a contrasting temperature.
     
    #41 fuzzy1, Feb 8, 2026 at 8:49 PM
  2. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    My first radar equipped Prius was a 2017 Prime. On the delivery home, I drove on I-81 headed South of Wilkes-Barre:
    upload_2026-2-8_19-51-43.png
    When we ascended into the clouds, the local traffic did not slow down. So I briefly thought, "Cloud fog, no problem, I have radar." Then I realized I had no way to tell how far and precise the radar was. The same was true later with my Tesla.

    So I used the part number to find the angular resolution and distance of the radar model in my model year Tesla and realized I still did not know the actual alignment of my car's radar. It is invisible to human eye. Are their shops that measure radar "alignment?"

    Tesla dropped radar from the self driving stack in May 2021. Autopilot had been somewhat random in some driving situations like emergency braking from cars at joining side streets. The first release was 'exciting' but more consistent. The second update restored previous service but now, consistent.

    As explained, radar and optics would sometimes disagree. For example, radar is subject to "multipath" distortions and metal plates like expansion joints and road work. It was always a coin toss whether the camera or radar would dictate the AutoPilot response. By the 3d release, camera driven AutoPilot became more consistent and accurate. Radar was inducing or masking errors in the camera sensor inputs.

    Others are welcome to hail radar as good enough for their vehicles. Personal experience, it was not good enough for Tesla AutoPilot.

    Bob Wilson
     
    #42 bwilson4web, Feb 8, 2026 at 9:05 PM
    Last edited: Feb 9, 2026 at 3:00 AM
  3. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    I no longer fly but notice GPS landing systems with electronic maps are very accurate and reliable. For example when I picked up my last airplane in 2012, someone had landed in virtually zero-zero conditions and that was my first exposure to it.

    GPS is more accurate now as are the electronic maps. I would have no problem with a GPS landing as it would be more automated and accurate than radar. Radar for rain detection makes sense but otherwise, I would have no use compared to today's GPS.

    Bob Wilson
     
    #43 bwilson4web, Feb 8, 2026 at 9:14 PM
  4. fuzzy1

    fuzzy1 Senior Member

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    Remember that GPS is not good enough to be a sole means of navigation.

    I've been watching GPS on board commercial flights for a while, when not specifically prohibited, it is a great way to identify and get oriented to landmarks and topography. In 2025, I found it jammed or spoofed on four separate flights. Within sight of Kalingrad, the GPS said the plane was moving backwards at about automotive highway speed. News reports indicated many on-going GPS anomalies in the Baltics region, impacting both aviation and marine vessels. Over Myanmar, both directions with a multi-GNSS receiver, it placed us way off track, and seemingly looping many times around a medium-sized traffic circle at 26 mph, and very curiously, each 'satellite signal' was exactly the same signal strength, which never happens on home territory.

    Various websites list or map numerous locations where GPS is known to get monkeywrenched. Certain state actors can do it nearly anywhere at any time.
    The radar dynamic cruise in my '24 Toyota has displayed no problems with expansion joints or road work, just a very few anomalies from vehicles in adjacent lanes in curves.

    I haven't seen anyone suggesting radar to be good enough to be a sole ADAS sensor type.
     
    #44 fuzzy1, Feb 8, 2026 at 11:49 PM
    Last edited: Feb 9, 2026 at 1:10 AM
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  5. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    Ukraine uses:
    • GPS
    • GLONASS
    • inertial navigation
    • optical pattern recognition
    • (undocumented!) Starlink - not just data
    Bob Wilson
     
    #45 bwilson4web, Feb 9, 2026 at 3:08 AM
  6. Gokhan

    Gokhan Senior Member

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    #46 Gokhan, Feb 9, 2026 at 5:22 AM
  7. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    Curves can lead to issues like that with the Subaru, and that's cameras only in for the front. Also had the curve issue with snow banks recently.

    Radar only might the case when the ADAS comprised of just adaptive cruise control.
     
    #47 Trollbait, Feb 9, 2026 at 1:01 PM
  8. fuzzy1

    fuzzy1 Senior Member

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    We weren't flying anywhere near Ukraine or any international war. The first incident was in peaceful airspace over open Baltic Sea waters, between Vilnius and Copenhagen. Searching for news later, there have been tens of thousands of GNSS anomaly reports from across the region over the past several years, including reaching over Sweden.

    Myanmar does have an ongoing civil war in some regions, e.g. the north, but civil air traffic is still overflying other regions, we were over the south. There was no active war in the western Pacific waters where another anomaly was seen.

    The first noticed incident was on my older hiking unit, which receives both GPS and GLONASS. The multi-GNSS system carried later was simultaneously tracking GPS, GLONASS, Galileo, BeiDou, and QZSS while we were traveling in the Asian region.

    Inertial navigation may be good enough for brief flights of higher-yield munitions, but I haven't seen any indication of it being good enough for landing aircraft, especially after extended flights. Aviation use requires augmentation from Instrument Landing Systems and other means.

    = = = = = =
    I've found that the electrochromic window shades in B787s and A350s seriously hamper GPS/GNSS use. They also give cabin crew the ability to deprive window-seat passengers their views of the outside world.
     
    #48 fuzzy1, Feb 9, 2026 at 2:59 PM
  9. Gokhan

    Gokhan Senior Member

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    #49 Gokhan, Feb 9, 2026 at 3:28 PM
  10. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    In one respect, I’ve been doing a compare and contrast of self driving sensors with those having little or no hands on experience. This video reveals the leading edge:


    I typically gain another 30 miles of FSD each day. This is orders of magnitude more than pretty much most thread responders with far fewer, automated miles. Sadly, their “great white hope” technology remains absent or unaffordable.

    I have some experience with Tesla/Toyota radar and BMW Mobileye. Enough to have experienced their limitations. Tesla optical and sonar sensors experience enough to tell when it is a fixable software versus sensor issue. Just the video puts in stark contrast a theoretical discussion versus ‘tuning’ the software.

    Bob Wilson
     
    #50 bwilson4web, Feb 13, 2026 at 5:57 AM
  11. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    No one here is holding LIDAR as some 'great white hope'. We just acknowledge that the technology has been steadily improving, and don't hold past performance up as reason to completely discount it for Level 5 ADAS.

    Despite its impressiveness, Tesla still hasn't taken the step to certify FSD as ADAS 3.

    Tesla no longer uses sonic sensors.
     
    #51 Trollbait, Feb 13, 2026 at 10:42 AM
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  12. Gokhan

    Gokhan Senior Member

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    You seem to promote Tesla FSD even more than Elon Musk and his engineers. Even Elon Musk said Nvidia and Mercedes–Benz were too ambitious to aim for Level 4 because they themselves thought it was too difficult to attain, but he encouraged them for trying.

    I see no point in your arguing every day that FSD is great and there can’t be anything better. Haven‘t you heard something called AI and the companies working on it?
     
    #52 Gokhan, Feb 13, 2026 at 2:11 PM
  13. Gokhan

    Gokhan Senior Member

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    Elon Musk: We will inhabit Mars in no time. Elon Musk later: We will inhabit the moon sometime in the future.

    Elon Musk: Tesla can self-drive. Elon Musk later: Tesla can self-drive with driver supervision. We tried but couldn’t achieve Level 4, and we think it is nearly impossible.
     
    #53 Gokhan, Feb 13, 2026 at 2:15 PM
  14. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    I learned Tesla is hiring for a maps and navigation department. That will lock down the current problem area.

    Bob Wilson
     
    #54 bwilson4web, Feb 13, 2026 at 2:26 PM
  15. Gokhan

    Gokhan Senior Member

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    OK, well, at least you are admitting that FSD has problems.
     
    #55 Gokhan, Feb 13, 2026 at 2:28 PM
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