How expensive is the flat tire charge, if you have no spare?

Just don’t buy vehicles that don’t have a spare. That solves your personal dilemma, AND, if it catches on, the majority of potential customers eschew vehicles without spares, this “trend” would undoubtedly cease.

 

There’s no “free lunch”, but retrofitting a spare is a frustrating and expensive chore, often done belatedly and in a way that compromises interior space and/or safety. A properly designed, factory installed spare is the way to go.

IF nobody buys cars without such spares, they will be reinstated, VERY fast. Research and education is key: you hear so many stories here, someone buys a car, gets a flat, and it’s “guess what I discovered” time.

 

Spare removal is likely being done after that other weight trimming.
Or it is to game fuel economy rules and testing.
Or to counter the weight added by high margin features people are asking for.

 

Gen 4 saw lower levels with a spare, and top levels without, adds credence to that. Mighta been Toyota trying to stay within some weight range, safety/practicality be damned.

I do wonder about "high margin features people are asking for": is it more a case of "features the manufacturers are telling customer they must have"? Many of them either mandated, or in some cases, nearly pure cost-cutting?

When it comes to making room for spares, I don't see them "trying hard", more "this'll do". This is a good example, the placement of the inverter for 4th gen with AWD.

 

IMHO; it's a little bit or everything, so sacrifices must be made.
Anything that's mandated by law is a no-go.
Additional battery space for the PHEV, ditches the spare and raises the floor
AWD; a full size spare can also be made to fit; but I understand it also raises the floor a bit.
On the gen5 refresh; they could've designed a space for a spare - but other manufacturers was getting away with it so why not?

Just my 2 cents.... Oh; sorry, that has since been repealed.....

I got a pizza combo at Sam's the other day, $2.69. Gave her $2.70 in cash and she gave me back a nickle in change. I pointed that out to the genZ and she stated - "that's what the machine says". I said OK; just didn't want you to get in trouble if your draw comes up short. Then I recalled the king's penny demand..... I should turn this into a business.

 

A week ago we were at a nice restaurant when presented with a check for $55. Just happened to have a $100 dollar bill so it went on the tray for payment. After a longer than normal time, the tattooed younger guy drops off the change and takes off.

How much did I get back? $45? No.
Something different because of a tip? Yes.

But the tip was for me. The last number on the check was $55 so that is what he gave me.

The unfortunate thing is - this has happened in other places as well. So much so that some restaurants no longer take cash.

I suspect we still have smart kids in universities and occasionally in service jobs but since covid and the mass retirement of baby boomers in the general work force, restaurants and other occupations including the trades have lowered their standards to keep the doors open,

 

even 25 years ago, watching our children matriculate through the public school system, you could see that a lot of students were lost without a calculator .
and at McDonalds, they had a cash register key for each menu item, and a place to enter cash given, which then calculated the change to return.

 

The really sad moral to this is; those businesses aren't going to stay in business for long; if they keep losing their margins like that. A modern grocery store survives on 1% margins; that's why mom & pop stores disappeared. The profit margins are way too slim to survive a few mishaps. If they didn't own the ground they were on; it would be worse.
See this post - so what's wrong with this dealership and do you think they'll survive with staffing like that? Those people don't seem to know where their paycheck is coming from; because I see pink-slips in their futures.
Brake pads and Rotors? | PriusChat

 

Just curious, did you bring it to their attention, or was it "start the car" time. I've had both reactions, always felt better doing the first.

One time, about 30 years back, I went with the second: was buying a few stationary items, pens, a protractor, maybe work related. I proffered a $20 bill in payment for something that was around $8~9, and the change handed to me was about $5~6. I questioned the cashier, another came over, they went over it and told me the numbers didn't lie. After another round they finally clued in that they'd confused the change with a price code.

In the midst of all this the 2nd cashier handed me back my original $20, saying "we'll start from the top again", something like that But both of them forgot. And then handed me the correct change, $11~12, something like that...

I thought about it, considered how long I'd had to debate with them, and hey I was a little younger. Said thank you and left, richer than when I went in, and with my stuff.

 

Yea; they made me night manager of a fast food joint, when I was still in high school. Had to tell a couple of people a lot older than me; what to do. I only got paid a few bucks more an hour than minimum wage and had to teach cashiers how to count forward to make change, because one of the registers was busted and they dragged out this old POS; that probably was used by the owners as a kid. I always put the smartest kid on shift at that register. I learned a lot doing that; but was very happy to quit; about a year later to continue school. I learned that it was a lot easier to be a "smart-mouth" than to get people to do things correctly - since I wasn't allowed to fire people.

 

I only "Ready" our cars. Starters are so 90's.

I gave it back and the kid still got a decent tip, partially because he/they rounded the change to dollars rather than dollars and cents in my "favor".

But it really was not in my favor when all I had was two twenties and a five. A five would be close to an insult tip for a guy paid $2.13 an hour restaurant minimum wage while a twenty was WAY too much unless he threw in a free dessert for our trouble. I should have roasted him with a five but I did not.

Who knows he might turn into my heart surgeon down the road so might as well share the wealth this time.

 

Exactly... You need to entirely stay away from this level of stupid If you care about how much money you spent for your tires, don't want a shortened lifespan reduced MPG and more weights to better balance it (risk of uneven tire wear), as well as premature failure of TPMS sensors.

Only time I use fix-a-flat is for wheelbarrow flats, not for a vehicle my life depends on!

Here's some proof of how stupid this stuff really is:

"The TIA found repair costs can exceed $200 due to sensor replacements after sealant use, and surveys conducted by the TIA (2020) showed some shops refuse to repair sealant-treated tires, leading to unnecessary full tire replacements." Fix-a-Flat: What It Can Ruin And The Pros And Cons For Your Tire Repair [Update On 2026]

"Sealant residue coats the tire's inner liner, making it extremely difficult for a technician to properly clean and patch the puncture — and if residue remains, vulcanizing cement can't cure properly, often forcing a full tire replacement instead of a simple patch." Does Fix-a-Flat Damage Tires and Wheels? - Engineer Fix

"Industry standards require technicians to demount the tire, inspect for internal damage, and perform a combination plug-and-patch repair — none of which can be reliably done on a sealant-treated tire. A spare tire handles any damage type and requires no special tools or cleanup." Don't Fix A Flat With Tire Sealant | J&T Towing

 

There are comments basically saying that from back then. Weight range brackets are a thing for various regulation testing. Add enough extra features, and you can push the car into the next bracket, and then pay a lot to test that trim separately.

That's a chicken/egg question. Luxury cars got power windows, people opted for them when they had the choice, somebody makes them a standard feature on a model, then the entire line up, and now it'll cost them more to bring manual cranks back for a cheap, stripper model.

For a Prius specific example, people love their smart key systems. I remember some stating it was a must have for their next car. The radios and sensors to make it work add weight. It might be a little amount, but there are dozens of such tweaks changing the weight of the car.

Some of that is the use of a global platform. It greatly reduces development cost, but you lose flexibility for individual models. The focus of TNGA was likely ICE models. Adding mechanical AWD it the Prius might have been easier than electric, but then you add those downsides. Then E-four was something Toyota came up with for a small segment of the Japan market. Moving other things around for the inverter and spare drastically increases the development cost.

And deadlines are a thing. Thus the gen4 PHEV battery.

The gen5 can have a spare in other markets. Even an illustration of it in the manual. There is a thread here on getting the parts and installing them.

 

PHEV's and AWD too? I know they deleted the tire change hardware too on the gen5. I didn't get a spare by at least I got the tire change hardware. I could stand on the side of the road like a mad man, swinging a tire iron around...

 

Yep exactly... What Toyota Corporation recommends doing is wait for a car with the right wheel size to drive by and then trick them into stopping and steal their wheel. Just like they do at the Stealership, just tell them that it's broken and it needs to be replaced by roadside assistance that's just about to arrive and charge their credit card $1800.

 

Is Slime problematic for subsequent tire patching, as is Fix-A-Flat?

 

Yes; any garbage you inject - other than air is going to cost you more money. As soon as the tire guy finds it; they have to clean it out and replace your sensor. I most cases, it's cheaper to replace a perfectly good tire, because the patch adhesive won't adhere to the tire. They can try putting a plug in it; but I don't think they'll warranty it. All that stuff needs to be cleaned out of the inside of the tire, so they can balance it and make it hold a balance. Any junk flopping around inside that tire is going to throw-off the balance.

 

So far as I've found, the generally preferred solution for aftermarket spares and kit is ModernSpare/ValueSpare (they say they're "sister companies", whatever that means legally).
Engineered Model-Specific Compact Spare Tire Kits | Modern Spare

 

There are three illustrations of the cargo area in the hybrid manual. One of the raised floor with cubby bins under the deck found in higher trims, one of the low trim sunken floor, and one with the raised floor with a spare underneath. I think it was @Hammersmith who got the parts and installed them for the spare configuration. AWD hybrid can have a spare.

The PHEV cannot. The charger is there. It is off to the side to allow storage cubbies, but big enough to intrude into the space for the spare. Toyota did more to the hybrid layout to fit the PHEV battery into the gen5, so I accept that this was the best they could do.

In the past, it was recommended to jack up the car to use the provided slime kit so the cheap compressor wasn't working too hard lifting the the car's weight. Hopefully the current pump is robust enough for the job.