Break in oil change?

I would drop that 0W8 break in oil out ASAP and go back with a Quality 0W20 Hybrid oil from Amsoil or another top brand.

 

Good job...I, also, do a break-in oil change at around 500 miles then it's every 6-months or 5,000 miles, whichever comes first. (I use Mobile One until the car gets over 100,000 miles then switch them over to Valvoline Restore and Protect. In our non-Toyota vehicle, a Hyundai, it's the Valvoline R&R always and she used to get changed every 5,000 miles but it was way too dirty for my comfort so I now change her every 3,000 miles....still dirty but not as dirty....worried about that GDI engine lasting the long-term.

 

I'm going to say "break-in" oil changes are mostly useless/wasteful, and subsequent oil changes shorter than Toyota's recommended: "10,000 miles or 12 months, whichever comes first; or 5,000 miles or 6 months if your driving includes frequent short trips (where the engine doesn’t fully warm up), extensive stop-and-go city traffic, driving in freezing or dusty environments, or frequent cold starts", is 100% useless/wasteful.

Just adding this for the sake of accuracy. Toyota engineers have zero incentive to give out information that would contribute to the early demise of their engines.

Enter: conspiracy theorists.

 

So you're saying Toyota USA would pass up the chance to save a hard $250M per year?

I'm not saying Toyota ENGINEERS are behind the change to the 10k mile interval, I'm saying Toyota USA ACCOUNTANTS are.

Here's the math:
Toyota/Lexus sells about 2.5M cars in the US each year. Those cars get ToyotaCare/LexusCare coverage for 2y/25k. If the standard OCI is 6m/5k, that works out to about 4.5 oil changes per car sold. If the OCI is 1y/10k, it's 2 oil changes per car. So that's a difference of 2.5 oil changes.

Dealerships don't do ToyotaCare oil changes for free. They bill Toyota USA for each one. Now Toyota USA has a pretty huge bargaining power here, but they still have to pay the dealerships something. GoogleAI says it varies between $30-$55 depending on market and engine size, and that sounds reasonable. So let's say an average of $40.

2.5M vehicles/year * 2.5 oil changes * $40/change = $250,000,000/year

The engines will make it to 15 years/150k miles* regardless of 6m/5k or 1y/10k oil changes. So what incentive does Toyota USA have for spending an extra $250M per year for 6m/5k changes? Toyota USA doesn't care one way or the other if a car makes 200k, 300k, or 500k miles. As long as it hits 150k, they're off the hook for any warranty work. Show me just one C-suite suit that will sign off on a $250M check every year just out of the goodness of their heart. I'll wait.


*the length of the longest required warranty period on any car sold in the US - emissions and battery systems

 

Toyota started the 2 year 25k "free maintenance" when gen3s and 10k mile intervals were introduced.

Toyota dealers will do oil changes on any schedule you want when it is new. But you only get two oil changes for free. Been there done that. I will say their oil change crew was pretty surprised when I showed up at 2k miles for my first free change. But they did it. 5k later I was back for the last free oil change.

Interestingly, they send me a buy one get one free coupon a couple times a year which nets them $40 per oil change total. The only downside is they take an hour or more each time; enough time for the car salesmen to chat you up. It is extremely rare when any of the salesmen know anything about the cars they are selling.

 

Oops. I had a bit of a typo there. I put 2,500mi instead of 25,000mi. Fixed now.

Yep, there's no way the introduction of Toyota/LexusCare in late 2009, and the switchover to the 1y/10k oil change interval around 2010 aren't connected.

And I just found out ToyotaCare is dropping to 1y/10k starting with the 2027 model year(including the Priuses about to hit lots next month). So now it's going to be 2 inspections and 1 oil change instead of 4-5 inspections and 2 oil changes. That means Toyota USA is saving another $100M-$150M/year, and the effective price of each car is going up $50-$150 depending on model and area.

And I did the same thing with my Prius in 2023, but I decided to alternate my free oil changes. I paid for my break-in change, used my free one at 6m, paid for the 1y, and used my second free one at 18m. Then I took my car to TheCarCareNut for the 2y inspection & oil change. Since then I've done the changes myself, but I still take the car in once a year so it can go up on a rack and have a good inspection(that I pay full price for so I know they take their time). Even years is the local dealership; odds years is TCCN in Chicago.

 

Excellent retort!

Toyota gross annual rev: $334B (approx.); net: $25.4B (approx.)

The "oil change cost saving theory" represents 0.076% of Toyota's gross revenue and 0.984% of its net income.

Let's now consider the "good will" and "brand equity" valuation of Toyota having the "longest lasting engines" (and highest resale values) as measured by consulting firms Interbrand and Brand Finance: $64.7B

Is it reasonable to think that the C-suite suits would risk that kind of brand value, on one of the single greatest factors that influence the lifespan of an engine, sufficient lubrication; simultaneously threatening a monumental industry achievement.... for what amounts to a 1% rebate check?

 

By 2016 Toyota fixed gen3 reliability issues by reengineering gen4.

So their reputation remains good with mainstream buyers who gladly wait to pay full msrp plus $1.5k-$3k of worthless add ons.

I promise you no one outside of this forum cares about gen3 Prii unless they own one and even then that small subgroup always say it was a great car (until it blew the head gasket).

After the Iran war started and gas prices went up $1.50, a neighbor traded two gas hogs that ran fine for two Prius v's for $12k and $15k! Pretty good resale value for their seller. I suppose I am partially to blame for having a clean example with high miles but the neighbor does not know about the inverter stranding or brake booster replacement issues I had, both paid for by Toyota but not available to them. To say nothing of oil burning issues.

 

Yes, yes, and absolutely yes. One of the biggest failings of our current economic system is the hyper fixation on short term results over long term performance. Toyota's better than some, but that's Toyota Japan/Toyota Global, not necessarily Toyota USA. I believe Toyota USA would take that deal every day of the week and twice on Sundays. I think that even more so now that I just read they're shrinking ToyotaCare to 1y/10k starting with the 2027 model year. Even 4.5 inspections and 2 oil changes was apparently too much for them. If I were a young child of one of their execs, I'd be nervous they'd gleefully trade me away for a $250M savings.

(This is where it would be good to point out that you shouldn't really compare the $250M to the $334B/25.4B. The former is just a Toyota USA number, while the latter pair are Toyota Global numbers. You would really want to compare the $250M to whatever Toyota USA's annual revenue/profits are, but those figures aren't publicly available. But the "rebate" would then likely be closer to 3-5%.)

I think it's also important to always remember that Toyota(like all automakers) makes the money on the initial purchase. And how many owners that buy brand new cars hang onto them for more than 10y/150k before trading in to get their next one? I plan to, but I fully accept I'm not a typical buyer. The vast majority of new car buyers today are going to sell/trade in/end the lease of their car well before it hits 150k. They don't care what happens to the car when it hits 200k, 300k, 500k. They've long since moved on to newer vehicles by that point. It's the dealerships that make money off the resales, not the automaker themselves.

Finally, Toyota is already coasting on its reputation. Their cars are not nearly as overbuilt as they were in the 90s, 00s, and 10s. Today, they're just a better-than-average brand instead of an exceptional one. And unlike others, I don't blame them for that. There were a bunch of external factors that converged during that time period that made it economically feasible for Toyota to build cars that way. Those factors are long since gone. If Toyota tried to build a car to the same quality as an LS400 today(for example), it would cost well north of $200k if Toyota didn't want to lose money on each one. That's just the reality of today.



I will say that the recent change to ToyotaCare makes me wonder just a bit if we're going to see an eventual return to the official 6m/5k interval to try and help Toyota get a bit of that reputation back(esp with the turbos). I doubt it, but it wouldn't cost them much money to do it anymore. In fact, it would be revenue neutral when bundled with the upcoming change. But I still doubt it. I expect the ToyotaCare change is really about hiding tariff and other increased costs while limiting obvious increases to the 2027 MSRPs.