2007 Prius, lots of miles ADDED 7 Gallons of GAS by hand from a metered Gasoline bottle. The engine will not start The fuel pump sounds to be running when I jump it I swapped out the fuel relay The car reports one flashing bar of fuel (incorrectly) As the gas was flowing back onto the ground, it is safe to say it is FULL. I guess what I want to know is if the gauge sender fails and decides there is no fuel, does the computer shut the motor down and prevent the fuel pump from running? And so.... If this is the case, unless I find a wiring issue, I will need to replace the gas tank (unless I can get to the sender) I know there are screws around the pump and the pump cannot be removed, but is it possible to get at the sensor sender? I omitted the other errors, such as replace hybrid battery...that might make mechanic shops salivate, but I have a full set of cell spares...it just got tired as my daughter did not sense the engine had stopped and drained it....any one have a hand crank charger?
No You need to determine the voltage of the hybrid battery. Use a scanner or a volt meter. EDIT: Does the car go into READY? Does the electric motor crank the engine? Has any maintenance/work recently been done? Please give us some history about the car. Please post all the trouble codes that the car has.
I believe the primary problem is the engine will not start...the fuel sender has failed. The hybrid battery will charge once the engine runs. Barring that, I can charge the cells if need be
Take a rubber mallet lay under the back of the car and beat on the bottom of the gas tank like you're beating a big base drum you're not trying to put a dent in the gas tank you're trying to shock the sender about eight good wax like tongfo kicking the columns and kickboxer the whole building shook. No see if showing full ,?
I don't know that for sure. What I'm sure of is it changes the code you see: if the ECM was going to show you P3190 or P3191, but the combination meter thinks the fuel is out, it shows you P3193 instead. Whether that also prevents further starting attempts, I don't know.
It goes into Ready mode sometimes now but fails after an attempt to start the engine, I am afraid the traction battery is too low to turn the engine now, I will have to manually charge it. No maintenance has been recently done. An oil change happened about 2 months ago This car has 452,000 miles on it. The engine was replaced with a used one, along with the transaxle some 45,000 miles ago. The replacement was required as the old block was eviscerated by the exit of 4 recalcitrant rods (its important to check oil level often...oooops). The hybrid battery was swapped at the same time as it was recently reconditioned. The trouble codes were omitted so I could avoid all the , "did you put gas in it?" questions: C1203 C1345 P3193 P0A80 P0A0F. I was able to get the gas gauge to register a full tank after using the recalibration procedure on the car: Turn car on and press odo/Trip button until Trip A is is displayed Turn vehicle off Keep foot off brake and press power button twice holding down odo button press and release odo button 3 times, and continue to press it after the last (I guess this means depress 4th time and hold) odometer displays 6 digits release and press odo and hold button odometer displays 5 digits odometer displays 1 in the middle Release odo button Turned vehicle off then back on and it now displays a full tank. As noted, it cannot crank the engine, and I received a new triangle. I will post the newest codes shortly. I would say the traction battery is weak and I am hunting through the pages and youtube for the reconditioning process again. I will recondition the old pack even if I get the car running....trying to avoid the gas tank drop, But, I probably should snag the one on the wrecked prius before I junk it. I put this kind of work into the vehicle as I respect the engineering of a vehicle that often goes beyond 300k miles. I put gas in the car and on the ground.
Quite the mystery. Did Toyota ever release an error code logic diagram? It would clear up these nuances I did a recalibrate but I like your idea . Now, why has nobody cut into these tanks to tinker? then again...with a bladder in there.... a spark from a tool could lead to an early Fourth display. I suppose you could fill it with water? but, outside the bladder might be quite explosive
The "recalibrate" you did is for the fore-aft and side-side inclination sensors in the combination meter under the dash. There seems to be bad information getting around that it somehow recalibrates the fuel level sensor. It doesn't, though the inclination readings are used to adjust the reading when the car is on a lean. The usual legitimate reason for doing that "recalibrate" are when the combination meter or the inclination sensors have been out of the dash. (The procedure sets whatever the current readings are as being "perfectly level, no lean", so you should be sure to do it when the car is perfectly level, no lean.)
Never the less, this procedure made the car report a full fuel condition. There are no "level" surfaces here. The procedure can be repeated after I buy a bulldozer and level my lot. As for misinformation, misinformation arises when there is a data/information vacuum and people need to piece together what is going on by observation. Can you explain why my car calibrated itself to be vertical, or upside down? I used this procedure once before on the car when it was clear the gauge was wacko long ago (seven years or more...not related to current situation). I am assuming, from observation, that the gauge was not "misleaned" at all back then but that the gauge system itself has a design flaw that comes to light as the vehicle ages. The wrecked vehicle I purchased had the SAME issue. This gauge is no longer linear. The gasoline will go out like it is getting 10 mpg, and begins flashing when there is still 100 miles of fuel left. It has not been accurate since 150,000 miles. Was not aware there were inclination sensors in the dashboard. The only inclination sensor I know of is near the gas tank on the drivers side of the car.
That headlight-leveling sensor at the rear axle has nothing to do with the two inclination sensors that are built into the combination meter for the purpose of correcting the fuel gauge reading. The repair manual describes the meter inclination sensors here: If you went through a 'calibration' procedure that looked like this, what you did was tell the meter that the current longitudinal and axial inclination readings are for the car parked on a level surface. That's the procedure that a lot of online sources (but not the repair manual) mistakenly call a fuel-gauge calibration. Looking in the repair manual, you find the correct information. The manual recommends the procedure for cases where you have had the meter out of the car, or have had the inclination sensors dismounted and remounted on the meter. There is no soft calibration for the signal from the in-tank fuel level sensor. If that sensor starts reading out of spec, it has to be replaced. When it arises on PriusChat, it often involves repeating information that came from internet searches of everything-but-the-repair-manual (so, a kind of self-imposed information vacuum).
Or, to be less conclusory about it, why was a better fuel level reading reported, chronologically after doing it? I don't know offhand. That kind of question is often hard to answer from 500 miles away without seeing everything that happened in exact sequence. (It's often still hard to answer right in person without seeing everything that happened in sequence, and having the ability to repeat, and vary the sequence, and note things that weren't noted at first.) The realm of possible answers could include, without limiting, that the gauge firmware was in some hung state at first, and the inclination sensor zeroing procedure happens to knock it out of that state (sort of like, when an app on my phone has stopped responding to touches, rotating the phone to change screen orientation and back again can get the app responding again). So the question isn't a bad one, but fudging details, like what the procedure's purpose is, likely just gets in the way of finding a right answer.
<The realm of possible answers could include, without limiting, that the gauge firmware was in some hung state at first> This would be my guess as well. This points at computer glitches. So, without a clear direction, I have to come up with some mitigating ideas: Among them is prepare to switch out the ECU, which, I am guessing is a pretty bad task...registering it, getting the vin changed, getting it to talk correctly to other modules. What I will do is harvest the ECU from the wreck. I will also harvest the gas tank. There IS an event that happened but I ruled it out earlier.....this car has been going through mud puddles in back roads...you would think this is not a big deal, but, mud splashes appeared as high as the inside of the hood and on the air cleaner. As this was a swapped in engine, the wheel and engine shields have not been reinstalled....I was prepped to do it, but the vehicle was needed, so it was passed over. I will set this as a priority after I get it running. No water/mud made it to the ECU, but......there is the ABS accumulator and its crazy plug and the sensors all over the engine...
I have replaced 5 fuel tanks for customers with Gen2 Prius- 4 of those had faulty level sensors. People have cut open the fuel tanks - pics are somewhere in the forums. The level sensor and fuel pump are in a plastic sub-tank next to the bladder tank. Nothing is accessible or serviceable. The sensor normally is low resistance (4 ohms) for "full", and higher resistance (110 ohms) for "empty". When the sensor gets worn it goes "open circuit" (very high resistance). The Combination Meter shows "empty" on the fuel gauge if the level sensor is 110 ohms or if it's open circuit. There is no other ecu directly involved with the fuel gauge. The CM takes the level data ("empty" or "not empty") and sends that out on the information networks to the engine (ECM) & hybrid control ecu's. You can drive around for months with the fuel gauge on 1 flashing bar, as long as you don't actually run out of gas. As mentioned, the hybrid control ecu will set different codes if the ICE doesn't start with fuel empty vs. not empty. As I understand, the hybrid ecu (on "late" Gen2) will allow 3 (failed) start attempts before blocking you. Then you have to clear codes (& have enough charge in the HV battery) before you can try again. Short form is I think the fuel gauge is presently irrelevant to your no start. A more common scenario is that normal PCV deposits build up in the throttle body bore where the throttle blade is "closed". The ECM can compensate by opening the blade slightly more, but there are limits to that. When the ECM "can't" go further, the engine doesn't get enough air to start and run. You get some type of "engine doesn't run" code. So I suggest - charge the HV battery as you can, then clean the throttle body (and MAF sensor - carefully). See what you get. Posted via the PriusChat mobile app.
Yes, that is where I am at at this moment. I was able to move the car under electric conditions across the driveway into the shade. I turned off the AC to avoid automatic engine start...then moved it. There I tested the fuel pump by using a 12v battery to the pump terminals which tested at 43 psi, and held above 20psi for 5 minutes (avoiding the use of hybrid cluster energy...it takes a long time to charge those buggers individually). From there I moved on to the MAF and the throttle body....I found a puddle under the throttle body....(bottom of the intake manifold). This puddle consists of oil and Gasoline....I took a sample using a rolled paper towel. Definitely oily and definitely has a gasoline smell. The PCV is suspect for the oil, and I will replace it, but, where is the gasoline coming from? I ruled out the EGR as I do not think oil would survive that route. Blow by will not explain the definite gasoline smell of the mixture. There is a fair amount of carbon on the throttle body, which I will clean, but the true mystery is the gasoline. Are my injectors full of poop?.... The MAF sensor is dirty as is the air cleaner, cleaning and replacement is coming. I was worried about a head gasket failure...it is probably due for that, but...no antifreeze. I will order a generic pcv clean the throttle body and the MAF and see what comes.... my codes changed from no fuel to poor engine performance. I feel the engine now starts, but then shuts down. This has become a Sherlock Holmes pursuit of the of the answer.
To be honest, I think these old Prius develop a needyness for attention. Plus they have this penchant for mischief
Believe it or not, that is quite normal and should not be a factor. You can clean it up, but it will pool again. There is no EGR in the Gen 2, so ... It happens, especially if there is black stuff on the throttle body as well. It usually cleans up with good results. Make sure to clean the MAF sensor, not just the temp sensor bulb. Head gasket failure on the Gen 2 is very rare. I'm not saying it never blows, but it is not likely. My thought on reading your post is that cleaning the throttle body and the MAFS will help. Once that is cleaned up, disconnect the 12 V battery to reset all the learned values in the ECM. Try one more restart after that, as long as you have enough charge in the big battery.
The oil's likely source is from the PCV (positive crankcase Ventilation) valve as mentioned earlier, and that is normal and what it is supposed to do - recycle crankcase vapors into the engine to be burned. As the dolj correctly points out, the Prius doesn't have an EGR but an easy error to make. The PCV is easy to clean (Carb cleaner) but isn't expensive (online Toyota OEM $19. Besides helping keep pollution down this also helps to prevent over pressure inside the engine which could harm the upper gasket causing an oil leak, IMO.) For such a high milage car, IMO, maybe better to replace. But test it - air should only exit it easily, not enter. Access is easy IF you remove wipers/motor/tray. Then just two bolts to enable the electric bundle/spark plug wires to move freely out of the way. Also, the throttle motion/position sensor could be an issue - w/o that functioning properly, the car could struggle to run. I know little on cleaning those but might be worth looking into that (youtubes on that subject for the Prius.) Cleaning the MAF is essential as dolj mentions and should be performed from time to time. Some thing I never bothered to do till learning of it recently - a huge 'duh' moment for me. Just remember to use MAF cleaners on a MAF sensor! So do buy MAF cleaner (all auto stores have it.) Other cleaners will leave residues that can harm its function and cause incorrect readings. It is easy to break/damage so be careful spraying and never try to touch it with any solid object. I too had trouble (maybe still) with my fuel gauge. The leveling procedure doesn't really fix that (as I once thought till corrected here.) Disconnecting the 12 volt system (and caps!) can enable the unit to maybe recalibrate. Also, maybe consider emptying the fuel tank as I've done. That might free the detector's motion (if that is how it works - no real idea.) Since I did that to confirm whether it or the tank was at fault for incorrect readings I was seeing (see my post just before this one on how I did that), I am hoping that has helped free it and enable to read correctly now (I'll report on the results when I nearly empty the tank again by normal use.) I do believe that hitting the tank with a rubber mallet might help the sensor - just don't dent the tank - lol. Changing the tank is a lot of work just over the fuel sensor (of course, not if the fuel pump is bad - I understand rebuilt tanks are available - $$$.) For me, if my fuel sensor continues to fail I will live with it (370 K miles, a baby compared to your's.) I will then just use the trip odometer instead - easy enough when knowing your gas milage. You mentioned you have an old junk Prius for parts so I guess you have a 'spare' tank - well, IMO, before changing out the tank, all those lines, the main refueling pipe (not so easy) and sensors, and dealing with all that falling dirt (not a joke) - maybe instead, try emptying the tank till the fuel pump struggles (as I did) and then banging the tank (that I didn't think of.) Might work and could save you from a lot of work. Well, this morning I will now replace the catalytic converter and part of the exhaust system on my Prius - I just got notice last month for an emissions inspection and my cat is useless - it is original so can't complain. Since I'm keeping the car for a few more years, I went with a far lower cost OEM equivalent by a company that gives a 5 year warranty and meets EPA requirements. Now I'll see what breaking those bolts after nearly twenty years of rust has done - ugh. Good luck with fixing your issues! The advice here I've seen is great and I've learned a great deal just from reading it.
