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White House Slams Carpooling

Discussion in 'Environmental Discussion' started by Beryl Octet, Feb 13, 2007.

  1. Beryl Octet

    Beryl Octet New Member

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    http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20070212/pl_nm/...ansportation_dc

    WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Carpooling won't do much to reduce U.S. highway congestion in urban areas, and a better solution would be to build new highways and charge drivers fees to use them, the White House said on Monday.

    "It is increasingly appropriate to charge drivers for some roadway use in the same way the private market charges for other goods and services," the White House said in its annual report on the U.S. economy.
     
  2. tripp

    tripp Which it's a 'ybrid, ain't it?

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    Why not both? Of course why build more roads when you can instead tax gasoline at a higher rate and get roughly the same effect. More carpooling and more mass transit ridership. This just reeks of pork. At least they're admitting that people must somehow pay more. That's something we haven't heard much from gov't lately.
     
  3. SSimon

    SSimon Active Member

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    There are many studies that offer evidence to the contrary. The phrase "build it and they will come" comes to my mind.

    Road construction is bad for the environment. It's the very cause that fragments our land.

    Also, new development often occurs along new roads which will induce more traffic and in the long term, more congestion.

    http://www.culturechange.org/issue15/newroads.html

    http://www.chicagowildernessmag.org/issues...2006/roads.html

    I believe it a more practical, economical and time saving solution to renovate Cities and towns providing more of human required elements such as food, clothing, gas and office space so that we aren't required to drive so far.

    Also, what's so bad about widening existing roadways? Or making or neighborhoods bicycle friendly? Or building rail transport? These seem to solve more problems in the long term than does adding more and more new roadways which will ultimately induce added congestion.

    *Edit*

    Oh, and the suggestion for fees is a joke. Anyone living near a toll booth with high volumes of automobiles know of the tremendous bottlenecks that are acheived with this imposition. Charge everyone a flat annual tax and get rid of toll booths.
     
  4. Wiyosaya

    Wiyosaya Member

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    Just goes to show how creative our current administration is. I thought this administration is conservative? Seems oxymoronic when most of the administration's solutions call for "more."
     
  5. Marlin

    Marlin New Member

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    I think the following quote from the article is the basis of this position.

    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE("the article")</div>
    So, instead of a knee-jerk bash Bush reaction just because this report came from the White House, why don't you discuss the low carpool lane usage instead.

    After all, look at how many people rushed to buy a new car in California just so that they could drive solo in the HOV lanes.

    So, do car pool lanes really work? Are they really contributing to a significant reduction in pollution? Might it be time to discuss other solutions?
     
  6. MechaJohn

    MechaJohn New Member

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    I don't remember anyone accusing this administration of being smart. :p

    I agree with the responding posters that in the long run adding more highways and lanes just causes more problems. Usually the added lanes take so long to build that they are obsolete before they are completed anyway. And a toll road is just a way for the city to capitalize on the traffic. This country would get the most benefit from improvements to mass transportation. Unfortunately, Americans are in love with our cars. And when we do talk about mass transit, the lobbyists and special interest groups usually step in and neuter the idea so that it loses most of the intended benefit. Sorry for the rant, I'm originally from NYC, where I still have friends who don't own cars because they use subways, buses, and even their feet! Now I live in Houston, where we have a pathetic excuse for mass transit, and most everything is too far to walk.
     
  7. Marlin

    Marlin New Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(MechaJohn @ Feb 13 2007, 04:42 PM) [snapback]389642[/snapback]</div>
    Well, maybe toll roads could provide more incentive to car pool. Charge $10 a commute and drivers might be more willing to share the ride and share the toll. Charge a dollar a mile, and maybe all those people commutting 60 miles each way in California might be willing to move a little closer to work. Maybe car poolers would get charged a reduced rate, so not only do they split the toll amoung each other, it's a lesser toll to begin with.
     
  8. MarinJohn

    MarinJohn Senior Member

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    Pork pork pork and nothing but. There are many urban areas where they are so built up that any new roads will require relocating huge a percentage of businesses and individuals and their homes at tremendous cost. It's not like there are unused corridors just waiting for new roads or lanes to be built. Furthermore, it has been proven over and over that 'if you build it they will come' meaning the new roads will become congested and also those urban areas cannot support more development because a) there is no more developable space (my county) and B) infrastructure is not there for more development (most other urban environments) which are not islands or peninsulas. This leaves creating new cities which usually happens on farmland. Since population will continue to grow and the people must live somewhere there is a necessity for an integrated approach which will cost. However, when our military budget is over a quarter of our total budget where is the money gonna come from to develop more living and working quarters for an increased population?
     
  9. MechaJohn

    MechaJohn New Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(MarinJohn @ Feb 13 2007, 01:56 PM) [snapback]389657[/snapback]</div>
    Well, let's see, the Bush plan is to increase spending and cut taxes, so obviously, we are going to borrow the money from our children and their children. :huh:
     
  10. NuShrike

    NuShrike Active Member

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    If they are going to add more lanes and highways, it might be less stop-gap to instead build commuter and other rail lines. Elevate them even above the current highways.

    Follow the trends of how high-capacity cities all over the world deal with it.

    It can be a New Dealish great construction project, and still cost less than the Iraq War debit card.
     
  11. daveleeprius

    daveleeprius Heh heh heh you think so?

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    Just like in communist Russia, there were roads only the Politburo could drive on, whole lanes reserved for government officials to use. This is another way the Bush administration will support the rich people and f&%$ the poor people. They will evict poor people from the poor neighborhoods and build highways only the rich will drive on.

    F*&$ you Bush! :D

    Dave
     
  12. donee

    donee New Member

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    Hi All,

    Already pay $250 a year to use the tollways I drive around Chicagoland. Just as long as they don't start charging for the local roads, I have no problem.

    Charging for the two-lane US highways would be a big problem due to all the grade level crossings. Could see a reverse impact on efficiency. There are people who would spend more on a off-road vehicle for the priveledge of cutting across farm-fields to avoid the toll sensor. Or just plain running over the toll sensor. Or a little shot-gun practice. In the end, it will just cost more than they collect in fuel usage, and all the repair and construction delays.

    Hey, maybe that is why the Bush administration is proposing it!

    A better way to spend all that money would be to build a north south west suburban sub-way in Chicagoland. Then I could get to work by electric vehicle, even without a Prius.
     
  13. JimN

    JimN Let the games begin!

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(MechaJohn @ Feb 13 2007, 03:18 PM) [snapback]389671[/snapback]</div>
    The next 2 generations will probably have no concept of saving as they certainly won't learn it from their parents. The Chinese and the Japanese have our money and will be happy to let us borrow it.
     
  14. TimBikes

    TimBikes New Member

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    Why not instead lay the infrastructure needed to support a vastly different scenario in which many workers could work from home (i.e., telecommute). That on top of school buses here in CA would relieve probably 40% of the weekday traffic.
     
  15. Mirza

    Mirza New Member

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    WHAT AN EXCELLENT IDEA!!!!!!!!!!!!!! And with increased productivity! When the influenza scare was around, I heard a statistic - something like 40% of people could work at home for their current jobs! With today's internet infrastructure this is entirely possible.

    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(TimBikes @ Feb 14 2007, 02:02 AM) [snapback]390057[/snapback]</div>
     
  16. burritos

    burritos Senior Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Beryl Octet @ Feb 13 2007, 01:10 PM) [snapback]389565[/snapback]</div>
    How about just raising gas prices with a tax. Then using the tax to double deck the freeways!
     
  17. MarinJohn

    MarinJohn Senior Member

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    I work at home and it was the best move I ever made. No more commute=less stress & cost. No more leaving the office and 'shopping' while downtown for useless junk. No more going to restaurants for every lunch (big savings). No more being at home and remembering something important work related only to forget it the next day while at the office (I just walk into the office and make a note of it for tomorrow). When things get stressful with clients I just go out into the garden and dig in the dirt. When I have to work long hours I can take a break and walk the dog. I eat better because I can slap dinner in the oven and work till it's done instead of getting home too tired to cook. I can work in my PJs.
     
  18. SSimon

    SSimon Active Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(MarinJohn @ Feb 14 2007, 03:33 PM) [snapback]390331[/snapback]</div>
    I'm envious. I like the digging in dirt part when stressed. Are you as productive at home as you would be in a formal office setting? It would seem to me this would require a lot of discipline.
     
  19. NuShrike

    NuShrike Active Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(TimBikes @ Feb 13 2007, 11:02 PM) [snapback]390057[/snapback]</div>
    Although there's a study suggesting telecommuting could kill your career.

    I've noticed it doesn't help build up the "face smoozing time" for myself lately, esp if there's coworkers in the office "whispering" behind backs. It hurts especially when you're in a demanding position where you have to "massage/manage" expectations.
     
  20. MarinJohn

    MarinJohn Senior Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(SSimon @ Feb 14 2007, 11:42 AM) [snapback]390342[/snapback]</div>
    I feel I am even more productive since I can take walks and gardening breaks for relief. I don't work by the hour, but by the job. I'm very disciplined to earn as much as possible during the winter so that I can take long vacations in the spring and late fall. I take other shorter vacations during the winter and summer, while working less intensely during those times. My feeling is that why not work 10-16 hours at a stretch while the work is there since the day is 'wrecked' anyway and I can't get away. I'm guessing over the course of the year I work as many hours as most others, but do it in intense chunks with long periods of fun time as my reward. By late April I have made most of my yearly 'nut' so I can glide guilt free from there. Of course working so hard the first quarter of the year is exhausting and it takes me a while to recover, but recovery is usually tropical. My work schedule is not for every lifestyle, but works well for me.