good riddence

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(SW03ES @ Feb 22 2007, 02:16 PM) [snapback]394630[/snapback]</div>

I'm a girl so I sure hope you wouldn't have popped me, and I'll try not to be a prick.

Here's the thing....the automobile was invented solely as a transportation mechanism, like I said, to get an individual from point A to point B. At this time, there was nary a family that could afford a vehicle. This evolved into most families being able to afford one vehicle; which evolved into most families not only being able to afford 2 vehicle but they wanted the biggest, largest vehicle being manufactured. Look to China and India to see this same pattern unfolding. Simply put, this pattern isn't going to be sustainable. I wasn't trying to offend anyone. I just think it's time we start to make small sacrifices in our lives for the sake of future generations. I don't, and won't, have children. So if people don't believe in my philosophy, it's really not going to be of direct consequence to me. I'll probably be dead before the s**t hits the fan.

And, I used to ride my bike everywhere until I became afraid of pedalling around town. One of those big, large vehicles decided it was a good idea to run me over. I fractured my back and suffered many injuries. This was in '97 in Chicago. Where you in the vicinity at that time? :blink:

 

SW03ES, I do love my car too, but it's not like my right hand (and I'm sure that's what you would say too)

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(SSimon @ Feb 22 2007, 12:31 PM) [snapback]394649[/snapback]</div>

The roads are even less friendly to those that don't have a car. > http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/17276580

I'm not trying to strir up stuff - just say watch out for pedestrians, bikes, wheelchairs, animals...

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(SW03ES @ Feb 22 2007, 01:16 PM) [snapback]394630[/snapback]</div>

:blink: :blink: We call that hypocrisy where I come from.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(SW03ES @ Feb 22 2007, 01:16 PM) [snapback]394630[/snapback]</div>

Substitute the word money for cars and I think you'll understand the attitudes that have contributed to the poisoning of this planet. It's my money, has nothing to do with anybody else.

Don't get me wrong, I agree that you have the right to buy whatever vehicle you want - just don't pretend that you're not contributing to the problem or affecting others. Obviously as one Prius owner, I do not feel I'm making a significant contribution to reducing my environmental impact - but I'm doing SOMETHING. You can call that smugness if you want.

 

A great quote I heard once "Money or a car never made anybody a jerk. They were that way long before they got either. The two just give them more opportunity to express their jerkiness."

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(efusco @ Feb 22 2007, 03:57 PM) [snapback]394718[/snapback]</div>

An average person drives a vehicle 12,000 mile/year. To use a rough average of 45 MPG for the Prius, a typical Prius driver gets 20 miles more per gallon of gas than conventional cars. So a Prius driver uses roughly 266 gallons of gas annually, while the driver of a conventional car uses roughly 480 gallons of gas annually. That's a difference of 214 gallons a year, per driver. Multiply this by the amount of Prius' sold and we Prius owners have conserved 128,400,000 gallons of gasonline per year on a collective basis. I'm not going to calculate the rate of emissions we save as my head is starting to hurt. Math is not my strong suit and I've probably messed something up here. Someone correct me if I'm wrong..........

Anyway, to bring it further multiply the annual savings of 128,400,000 x 6 years(I happen to keep my cars at least 10, but it's probable most of you don't) and we Prius owners will have saved a total of 770,400,000 gallons of fuel over a 6 year period, on a collective basis.

I never considered myself smug, but now it appears that I have a good enough reason to try.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Delta Flyer @ Feb 22 2007, 01:24 PM) [snapback]394639[/snapback]</div>

It is, the poor economy we're experiencing now is purely because if the short winter commute. We're totally pleased to get 40 MPG honestly, which we do get in the summer.

I don't have a problem with the Prius at all, in fact I think its a great little car. Its not MY kind of car though, I wouldn't purchase one for myself.

Do me a favor and don't talk to me anymore, you're not worth my time.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(SSimon @ Feb 21 2007, 01:55 PM) [snapback]394015[/snapback]</div>

Why stop at the car? You should move into 500 sq ft living space or less, as majority of the world population lives. You'll save much more environment by consuming less electricity and burn less natural gas for heating. Please also disconnect TV, it is worthless spending of time and if we don't watch it, there is going to be less and less studios and crew that consume gobs of electricity and gas for the helicopters. Now, limit yourself to two or three changes of clothing. Please explain it to your wife or girlfriend as well - they don't need any fancy clothing and should be saving environment. Now, we should also turn off street lights - it is complete waste of resources. Commercials should be banned - they promote consumerism and hence overconsumption.

Shall I continue or sacrifices really end quickly when they are not acceptable to YOU?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(efusco @ Feb 22 2007, 03:57 PM) [snapback]394718[/snapback]</div>

Why do you need a home? It is too large to heat. An apartment should do fine.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(SW03ES @ Feb 22 2007, 07:37 PM) [snapback]394886[/snapback]</div>

It was a general observation and not stated directly for you. When Evan mentioned units sold, I was curious of the overall fuel savings from hybrid technology. But, so far as your request, I can easily comply as I tend to like to be treated with some sort of consideration and you seem to lack a certain degree of diplomacy.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(LazyBear @ Feb 22 2007, 08:12 PM) [snapback]394904[/snapback]</div>

You have a good point and that's why I haven't stopped at the car. There are many other conseration oriented actions that I've applied within my lifestyle. And, yes, I'm opposed to street lights. They seem to be a necessity in preventing crime in major cities, however. I guess it's a question of a safe envrionment over a clean environment in some cases.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(SW03ES @ Feb 22 2007, 07:37 PM) [snapback]394886[/snapback]</div>

I just saw this and I feel this is directed at me. I apologize if I've provided you with the impression that I feel I'm beyond reproach. I'm not. There are plenty of additional things I could be doing to lighten my footprint. I just don't have the financial means right now. I just think that the demands on our natural resources and on this earth are important enough to bring to topic as maybe an individual has yet to take this dynamic into consideration and may care enough about it to diminish their impact on this planet. This has been my intended approach throughout this thread an maybe I haven't applied the proper method of conveying this. I apologize if I've offended you. I take back what I said about you lacking diplomacy. I guess I've unintentionally put you on the defensive.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(SSimon @ Feb 22 2007, 07:31 PM) [snapback]394909[/snapback]</div>

HAHAHAHA just when I think you can't think more of yourself, you do! You like to be treated with some sort of consideration?!? What about me? You called me selfish and small minded and said that the only right way of thinking was your way of thinking. Where's the consideration for anyone else?

Diplomacy is my business, but you are not deserving of diplomacy and consideration because you are completely disrespectful of everyone else but those who think like you.

What an einstein we have here!

Look, I'm willing to let this drop. Do yourself and everybody else a favor though and THINK before you judge. I'm sure I'm not the only person you've alienated with your attitude on this subject.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(SW03ES @ Feb 22 2007, 09:29 PM) [snapback]394948[/snapback]</div>

Huh? Have I met you before? Have we had any exchanges before this thread, ever? Have you any notion of my thought processes to adequately judge whether or not I'm closed minded?

The very act of extending an apology to you was fairly open minded considering some of your exchanges addressed to me. And, what of your sarcasm after receiving a considerate apology? I guess I'm not the only individual who could use a dose of "think before you judge".

I'm not into pure flame war type exchanges and I see that our exchange may be progressing down this path. Nothing useful (for me anyways) comes out of it. Despite your sarcasm, my apology still stands. How's that for being open minded and respectful of others who may not think like me?

Peace, I'm out.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(SW03ES @ Feb 21 2007, 10:08 PM) [snapback]394380[/snapback]</div>

The smugness that Prius owners are literally famous for works directly against their own ideology.

Arrogance is a huge turn-off to potential hybrid owners.

If Prius owners truly want to improve the environment, oil dependency and roadway safety, then we should all re-examine ho we "sell" hybrid technology to the populace.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(SW03ES @ Feb 21 2007, 10:08 PM) [snapback]394380[/snapback]</div>

Check out http://www.toyota.co.jp/en/k_forum/tenji/pdf/pgr_e.pdf

Long term environmental impact from production (according to Toyota) is indeed better, but you're the only person I've ever see mention that important consideration.

 

I've seen and been a part of similar exchanges like this:

<blockquote>1. Member zealous about being green questions things such as driving gas guzzlers and agressive driving
2. This strikes a nerve with some and a flame war starts, with the "smug" label tossed.
3. It gets personal</blockquote>

When I've been involved, it's been to advocate the green side. Stuff like hypermiling or at least going the speed limit in a sensible way to exploit the fuel economy of whatever you drive. Also advocating people trade in their typical 4000-pound vehicle to a 3000-pound set of wheels like it was in 1986. Of course my Hummer/Dodge Ram remarks have upset a number of people very much. I'm aware some people use light trucks to carry people or things, but my experience suggests they are not the ones most offended by my remarks - it's "I'll drive it because I can" group. From another forum, one such person practically acted like a Hummer dealer - serious.

Yes, some green people are smug. I remember a CNN report on the Calif HOV lanes with three people wanting to get the HOV sticker: (1) a truly smug Prius owner, (2) a female H2 driver, (3) an Escalade drive. Sort of seemed like The Jerry Springer Show instead. :blink:

My experience (repeating) is the smug label is most often tossed by the polar opposites of the Prius drivers - the global warming skeptics, the peakoil skeptics, the people more likely to be stung by the "poseur" label.

A common attack I've seen is: you have a hybrid, why don't you live completely off the grid, grow your own food, forgo cosmetics, avoid meat.... This just comes off as a childish arguement from an opponent. About this time of the year a lot of New Year's diets are being scraped to not lose 30 pounds because they would not settle for losing 3, then work on a way to lose 3 more....

I was an aggressive driver - it took two or so years to go to hypermiling. Not only do I think it's making a small dent in the environment, it's postponing the day my car goes to the wrecking yard.

Like some past threads in various forums, I see a pegging of green people and gas guzzlers, which leads to personal attacks and a tuning out of intelligent discourse.

My pitch is make a small dent for the envirnoment with what you drive and how you drive. Yes - I one of millions of drivers, but then I'll be one of millions of voters in 2008. I just want to be comfortable with my choices.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(ZenCruiser @ Feb 22 2007, 03:15 PM) [snapback]394694[/snapback]</div>

People have the legal right to buy whatever car they like. But does simply being a live and having the money give them the ultimate right? For the past decade the government has done little to promote true energy conservation, and as that paradigm changes, so will your "rights". I can't buy whatever drugs I want. I can buy beer and asprin, but not crack; because as a society we have elected officials that make and enforce laws that limit what we as consumers should have legal access to. IMO, cars should fall in this category and stricter laws should be enacted. So that no matter what vehicle choice you make it will be more efficient than todays vehicles.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(adammc @ Feb 23 2007, 01:17 PM) [snapback]395244[/snapback]</div>

On the flip side, we consumers have tremendous voting power with our dollars. This is the very reason that I chose to support hybrid technology. Short of legislated increased fuel efficiencies, we'll stagnate without another driving mechanism. This mechanism is demand. The more people that support hybrid technology, the more auto makers will be forced to adopt the technology and produce fuel efficient cars.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(adammc @ Feb 23 2007, 12:17 PM) [snapback]395244[/snapback]</div>

Yes, it does, in this country (well, I guess if you have enough money, any country...). This is a moral issue, and while I agree with your sentiment and agree that the government should enact stricter laws (which they have been reluctant to since they share beds with the oil industry), I also caution that asking the government to place more restrictions on us or take greater control of our lives is absolutely not a good thing.

There are studies out there that show obesity is at the heart (no pun) of most if not all of the diseases that are the top killers of Americans. Should the government step in and outlaw supersize meals (some would argue that the trans fat ban is a small step towards that)? Should they mandate exercise for all with appropriate punishments for non-compliance? Why haven't they outlawed cigarettes yet? Should they remove ALL responsibilities for our actions?

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(ZenCruiser @ Feb 23 2007, 01:36 PM) [snapback]395260[/snapback]</div>

The argument for government controlled increased fuel efficiency is a little different than the argument that you've outlined above. If someone wants to eat like crap and get overweight to a point where they're likely to suffer a heart attack or other complications, the damages are confined to only themselves and their social network (I recognize economic costs here but we're not talking about that). The ramifications from the burning of fuels, harvesting of fuels and all of the other natural resources used in the auto industry effects a tremendous amount of people in many, many countries (some of these ramifications present themselves in a very catastrophic manner) and these ramifications extend to and adversely affect our global environment which supplies each and every one of us with all of the necessary requirements that support our very existence.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(ZenCruiser @ Feb 23 2007, 01:36 PM) [snapback]395260[/snapback]</div>

I do share your concern about big brother etc. But the American Government has been set up and is empowered to regulate things that the citizens deem important enough to warant control over. Many citys and states are enacted Trans-Fat bans, so yes, they are stepping in to do what they can to help ease the problem of obesity. (Others might say by not providing affordable health care the government is ensuring that obese people are paying for their unhelathy lifestyle) Sure, the free market will eventually phase out the use of gasoline in cars (afterall it is a finite resource) but at what cost. Wait until the economy collapses, the planet passes "the tipping point"? That would be foolish.

It would be impossible to remove all reposnsibilty from our actions, The problem with the lack of helpful government mandated energy efficency, is that the actions of people today will effect billions of people not yet born....