Iran has Speeded Up Nuclear Projects

Question... who is the "enemy"? Is Iran the enemy? Because i haven't seen any pronouncement of war or anything of that nature. At one point Iraq was, but that only lasted a few months.

So please, elaborate on this enemy.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(eagle33199 @ Feb 23 2007, 03:23 PM) [snapback]395350[/snapback]</div>

Enemies come in many shapes in sizes. Currently, our enemy consists of Fundamentalist Muslims, Oil tycoons, crooked Politicians, and more.

Iran is pretty much all of the above.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(desynch @ Feb 23 2007, 01:33 PM) [snapback]395364[/snapback]</div>

So lets see... religious values, capitalist pigs, and liars are all our enemies. Now, let me make sure i don't make a mistake... Bush is rather religious... He comes from money, and has had some huge dealings with his daddy's oil companies in Texas, and has lied to us on multiple occasions. Clearly Enemy number one must be the man at the top.


I hope you see what you're saying... The "enemy" is one that has a religious view you don't agree with. The "enemy" is one who has risen to a powerful economic standing through the free market society. Didn't America rebel against Great Britain for some of these very same reasons (religious persecution being a major one)?

 

I'm sorry but I can't continue to converse with someone that appears to be so ignorant on global happenings and the atrocities Fundamentalist Muslims, Oil tycoons, and crooked politicians have committed (our Administration included).

It seems as if every question you pose is asking for a lesson in current global politics and past discretions. If you desire to have an educated view point, I highly suggest you do some reading from neutral, reliable sources.. not Fox News, and not some liberal propaganda. Read about what the Fundamentalist Muslims are calling for. Read what Iran has said about us, and Israel. Read about the deaths that have happened in the name of money and oil.. Read about Haliburton, Black Water, Boeing, Exxon.. Look at their profits before and after war..

Educate yourself and quit asking me silly questions.

 

They aren't silly questions, and I am well versed in both local and international politics (and i don't trust any of the news sources - when an issue comes up i look for multiple points of view on it using this glorious invention called the internet in order to form my own opinions). The issue at hand is that the two of you appear willing to pass judgment on everyone who falls into your buckets of "evil" regardless of the actual individual in question. Yes, there are some radical individuals out there who have done some horrible things in the name of their faith - it's happened in every faith, but because this one is so radically different from yours you aren't willing to accept that this may be a small minority of the individuals committing these crimes.

You insist to say that "see good and call it evil" and vice versa, without realizing that I'm not calling anything good or evil, which is the exact point. You are quick to judge and to label people in mass based on a very limited view of the group - a view put forth only by the media.

I challenge you to go out and, if possible, meet some of these individuals. Talk to some fundamentalist Muslims and see how you judge them individually. If you can go in with an open mind, i think you'll find that they aren't nearly as "evil" as you think they are, although as i said there are some that have committed crimes and atrocities in the name of their faith. But there are individuals who have done the same for every faith.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(eagle33199 @ Feb 23 2007, 12:59 PM) [snapback]395447[/snapback]</div>

Your impressions of Mahmoud Ahmadinejad do not conform to his generally accepted image within academia and the main stream western media.

I highly recommend that you read his profile on the BBC's website: BBC News - Profile: Mahmoud Ahmadinejad

GlobalSecurity.org has a very good and factually accurate, devoid of opinion, profile of Ahmadinejad: Mahmoud Ahmadinejad

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(eagle33199 @ Feb 23 2007, 04:59 PM) [snapback]395447[/snapback]</div>

I don't need to eat dog crap to know it tastes like crap.

The Quran has dozens of verses that call Muslims to war with the infidels.. It seem like every 12 verses.. Some are pretty damn nasty, with commands to sever heads and fingers, and "kill the infidels wherever they may be hiding". Muslims who do not join the "Jihad" are called 'hypocrites' and warned that Allah will send them to Hell if they do not fight.

Unfortunately, there are hardly any verses of tolerance and peace to make up for or even balance out how it repeatedly calls for nonbelievers to be fought and subdued until they either accept humiliation, convert to Islam, or are killed. The trail of violence and has resulted in blood and bodies across world history. They've killed millions of Buddhists, Hindus, Christians, and Jews... MILLIONS. They slaughtered a million Buddhists alone.. probably even more Jews, at least they'd like to.

I'm sure you, or someone will say "But what about the Crusades??? Christians killed alot of people back then too!" .. Well, that was BACK THEN. Muslims have been killing in the name of Mohammad and Jihad for a thousand years.. probably more. You also might want to look into why the Crusades actually started.. It had a lot to do with MUSLIMS oppressing Christians and Jews.

Now, you'll say "But those are the EXTREMIST Muslims that are doing this.." and this is where you're incorrect as well. These are the FUNDAMENTALIST Muslims. The moderate Muslims, the ones that don't want to kill you, they're considered weak by the fundies, because, it clearly, and repeatedly states in the Koran to destroy the "non-believers".

Sura (2:191) - And slay them wherever ye find them, and drive them out of the places whence they drove you out, for persecution [of Muslims] is worse than slaughter [of non-believers]

Sura (8:12) - I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them

Sura (8:15) - O ye who believe! When ye meet those who disbelieve in battle, turn not your backs to them. (16)Whoso on that day turneth his back to them, unless maneuvering for battle or intent to join a company, he truly hath incurred wrath from Allah, and his habitation will be hell, a hapless journey's end.

Sura (66:9) - O Prophet! Strive against the disbelievers and the hypocrites, and be stern with them. Hell will be their home, a hapless journey's end.

... Whatever, there are so many nasty things in that book. I know not all Muslims want to hurt us, it would be dumb to think that. Generalizing isn't a good thing, but I hope this gives some insight as to exactly who it is we're fighting over there. These fundamentalists want to exterminate us.. as much as war sucks, it is better for it to be over there, than over here. Nobody wants war.. Well, except Haliburton, Blackwater, Exxon.. uhh.. ... crap. ++NO CARRIER++

 

For six days, work is to be done, but the seventh day is a Sabbath of rest, holy to the LORD. Whoever does any work on the Sabbath day must be put to death. [Exodus 31:15]

For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven. - [Matthew 5:20]

If a man or woman living among you in one of the towns the LORD gives you is found doing evil in the eyes of the LORD your God in violation of his covenant, and contrary to my command has worshiped other gods, bowing down to them or to the sun or the moon or the stars of the sky… Take the man or woman who has done this evil deed to your city gate and stone that person to death. – [Deuteronomy 17:2-7]

They entered into a covenant to seek the Lord, the God of their fathers, with all their heart and soul; and everyone who would not seek the Lord, the God of Israel, was to be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman. - [2 Chron 15:12-13]

Suppose you hear in one of the towns the LORD your God is giving you that some worthless rabble among you have led their fellow citizens astray by encouraging them to worship foreign gods. In such cases…you must attack that town and completely destroy all its inhabitants, as well as all the livestock. Then you must pile all the plunder in the middle of the street and burn it. Put the entire town to the torch as a burnt offering to the LORD your God. [Deuteronomy 13:13-19]

If your own full brother, or your son or daughter, or your beloved wife, or you intimate friend, entices you secretly to serve other gods …do not yield to him or listen to him, nor look with pity upon him, to spare or shield him, but kill him. - [Deuteronomy 13:7-12]

Anyone who blasphemes the name of the LORD must be put to death. The entire assembly must stone him. – [Leviticus 24:16]


In summary, the bible tells you to kill:
* Everyone who works on the Sabbath
* Everyone who does not believe in God
* Anyone who curses father or mother
* Everyone who commits adultery
* Everyone who happens to be Homosexual
* Rebellious teenagers

Additionally, the Bible supports:
* self maiming
* sexism
* Slavery


You're right... any religion that has so many commands to murder must be full of horrible people. Surely you recognize that you are generalizing, and painting a bad picture about a very large group of people without even knowing them yourself.

as for Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, i don't have any opinions on the man, i was just listing some of the better things he's done - Many people come to this board with blinders on, having a preconceived notion of someone or some group and refusing to recognize that they usually don't fit into that notion as well as they would like.

 

Hmmm, bush invaded Iraq because it was supposed to have WMD so one would wonder why he's not invading North Korea and Iran. You know, the ones who really DO have WMD. Things that make you go hmmmmmmmm. Wow, this thread appears to have been the latest to be highjacked by the religious crowd. :YAWN:

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(eagle33199 @ Feb 26 2007, 06:15 AM) [snapback]396636[/snapback]</div>

Wow you discovered the OLD testement how impressive.
Of course the old testament reaks of fire, brimstone and death, Christians acknowledge this but tru Christians follow the NEW testament the happy, happy, joy, joy version (less blood, it was a rough time back then). And those fundimentalists that follow the OLD testament are generally looked down upon and scoffed. Further I don't see to many stonigs at the eastern gates beeing committed by Christians, but I do see a hell of a lot of beheadings being committed by MUSLIMS!

Look at the now and the obvious and quit trying to find justifications by citing past acts.

Islam is the number one force for terror and carnage in the world TODAY! and Muslims are its natural handservants. This can change but not until the obvious is accepted. People are just afraid to acknowledge realities which they find frightening, like the abused wife who says it his way of telling her he loves her or it was her fault for burning the toast, as she puts a compress on her second black eye!
http://www.iht.com/articles/2007/02/25/news/thailand.php

 

Nice how that works out, huh? only fundamentalists believe that, and they're looked down on when it comes to Christianity. But say the fundamentalists believe it for Muslims, and it's suddenly a horrible thing that condemns the whole religion.

Do you not think there might be a better way to go about it than damning the whole religion? might it be better, more humane, more "New Testament" happy happy joy joy to instead try to give the religion a helping hand? Bring it out of it's "crusade" days and into a world where it can coexist with other religions?

Then only difference between now and the days when Christian stonings, beheading, and witch burning took place is the level of our technology and the damage a single individual can do. The Christian religion grew out of its bloodthirsty age, so too will theirs. Quicker, even, if you're willing to assist them instead of condemn them.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(eagle33199 @ Feb 26 2007, 11:00 AM) [snapback]396769[/snapback]</div>

Yes, Because in modern Christianity it is the CHRISTIANS that denounce radical fundimentalist Christians, NO SUCH VOICE EXISTS (well not long before its beheaded) in the Muslim religeon.

An honeslty, we, as a civilization, are at a technological level that may not be able to withstand the Muslim coming of age, and why should it? Should we not learn from history and try and prevent another reigeous 'dark ages'? Again truthfully, the fundimental age of christianity was generally a dark period in human history, why repeat it?

Apologies for the typos in the last post typed in a hury. sheesh that's bad.

 

Eagle, that is such a typical liberal response.. Show me Christians that are currently killing people for working on Sunday.. Show me Christians that are currently killing people in the manners you so lamely suggested.

If Christians did things like you mentioned, there would be an outrage, Christians would voice up and say how wrong it is. Hell, even when some fundie Christian blows up an abortion clinic, it makes national news and causes tons of Christian outcry and anger. Christians get angry when murder is commited in the name of their God and they let that be heard. Muslims on the other hand....

When some Muslims blow up a couple buildings in the USA, they go dancing like crazy animals in the streets. You didn't see too many Muslims taking a stand against that then did you? If they had, they'd be ostricized from the Mosques and branded a supporter of the Infidels.

 

So it's much better to just condemn them, bomb them, and invade them? It seems that Christianity hasn't moved as far from the dark ages as you seem to think - They're Muslims! Lets kill them!

Here's what you sound like (modified from Monty Python and the Holy Grail):

The Muslim: I'm not a fundamentalist I'm not a fundamentalist!
Sir Bedevere: But you are dressed as one
The Muslim: *They* dressed me up like this!
Crowd: We didn't! We didn't...
The Muslim: And this isn't my beard. It's a false one.
Sir Bedevere: [lifts up her false beard] Well?
Peasant 1: Well, we did do the beard.
Sir Bedevere: The beard?
Peasant 1: And the head dress, but he is a Muslim!
Crowd: Yeah! Burn her! Burn her!
Sir Bedevere: Did you dress him up like this?
Peasant 1: No!
Peasant 3, Peasant 2: No!
Peasant 3: No!
Peasant 1: No!
Peasant 3, Peasant 2: No!
Peasant 1: Yes!
Peasant 2: Yes!
Peasant 1: Yeah a bit.
Peasant 3: A bit!
Peasant 1, Peasant 2: A bit!
Peasant 2: a bit
Peasant 1: But she has got a wart!

Sir Bedevere: There are ways of telling whether he is a Muslim.
Peasant 1: Are there? Oh well, tell us.
Sir Bedevere: Tell me. What do you do with Muslims?
Peasant 1: Burn them.
Sir Bedevere: And what do you burn, apart from Muslims?
Peasant 1: More Muslims.
Peasant 2: Wood.
Sir Bedevere: Good. Now, why do Muslims burn?
Peasant 3: ...because they're made of... wood?
Sir Bedevere: Good. So how do you tell whether he is made of wood?
Peasant 1: Build a bridge out of him.
Sir Bedevere: But can you not also build bridges out of stone?
Peasant 1: Oh yeah.
Sir Bedevere: Does wood sink in water?
Peasant 1: No, no, it floats!... It floats! Throw her into the pond!
Sir Bedevere: No, no. What else floats in water?
Peasant 1: Bread.
Peasant 2: Apples.
Peasant 3: Very small rocks.
Peasant 1: Cider.
Peasant 2: Gravy.
Peasant 3: Cherries.
Peasant 1: Mud.
Peasant 2: Churches.
Peasant 3: Lead! Lead!
King Arthur: A Duck.
Sir Bedevere: ...Exactly. So, logically...
Peasant 1: If she weighed the same as a duck... she's made of wood.
Sir Bedevere: And therefore...
Peasant 2: ...A Muslim!

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(dbermanmd @ Feb 26 2007, 01:27 PM) [snapback]396782[/snapback]</div>

Thats laughable, Berman. But please, keep insulting me. It just continuously erodes your position, and proves that when you have no good argument, you can always result to insults and name calling to win the fight.