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Upgrade to a Prius or keep civic?

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Main Forum' started by softhands, Feb 28, 2007.

  1. softhands

    softhands New Member

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    I was wondering what everyone's opinion is on this issue:

    Me and my girlfriend currently share her 2002 Honda Civic LX. We are getting 6.4L/100km (43.8 mpg). Ive been researching what the average mpg seems to be, and I'm just wondering if any of you would consider upgrading. To you, would getting the extra maybe 5 mpg be worth the expense?

    The decision would be easier if rumors of an 85-95 mpg Prius are true.. anyway I'd like to know people's opinion on this.

    Brad
     
  2. luckyboy

    luckyboy Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(softhands @ Feb 28 2007, 04:37 PM) [snapback]398044[/snapback]</div>
    If you are getting 44mpg (Is that an Imperial gallon?) then keep it for sure. The prius would not be worth the expense if you look at the mileage savings alone.
     
  3. softhands

    softhands New Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(luckyboy @ Feb 28 2007, 04:46 PM) [snapback]398049[/snapback]</div>
    If by Imperial you mean American? Yeah. I was pretty sure that would be the case, it not being worth it to make the switch. At least not yet, if I could AFFORD to I still would, if not for the fuel savings then for the reduced emissions. At least I read they were reduced, though if both cars have relatively close mileage, are their emissions similar as well?

    Thanks for the reply,

    Brad
     
  4. seftonm

    seftonm Member

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    Keep in mind that US gallons are the most common unit of measure around this forum. 6.4L /100 km is 36.8 miles per US gallon.
     
  5. usbseawolf2000

    usbseawolf2000 HSD PhD

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    If fuel saving alone can not justify the upgrade, consider other features comes standard such as electric climate control, MFD LCD touch screen, MP3/WMA, heated side view mirrors, quiet electric drive, Traction control, ABS, etc... and optional features such as front, side curtain air bags, One touch Power button, Smart Key, Bluetooth, DVD Nav, Backup camera, etc...

    Dennis
     
  6. dmckinstry

    dmckinstry New Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(softhands @ Feb 28 2007, 01:37 PM) [snapback]398044[/snapback]</div>
    In my own opinion, it wouldn't be worth it, unless there were other Prius features that you really wanted. For example, a lot more space, nicer built-in toys, etc. For me if was a fairly easy decision, so I got the Prius.

    Dave M.
     
  7. daveleeprius

    daveleeprius Heh heh heh you think so?

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    Keep the Civic unless you really need a hatchback. The Civic is a fantastic car, and will last a dozen years if taken care of. I find Civics a lot funner to drive than most cars, though I find the Prius also funner to drive than most cars too.

    Dave
     
  8. softhands

    softhands New Member

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    Thanks for the reply's. I use a website called OntarioGasPrices.com and use the log book, that's how I arrived at 43.8 mpg. So maybe they are a bit off. I do like 'toys' but for the extra cost and no real practicle benefits, at least not yet, it seems to not be worth it. The Civic is a great car, gets great gas mileage, can fit 5 people. I can't think of anything wrong with it. I was hoping there would be something about the Prius that would make me switch, but I guess fuel isn't it.

    Anyone know about that emissions question? A hybrid at 38-44 mpg and the civic at 38-44, do they have identical emissions?

    That's pretty important to me, the reason we share a car, and conserve as much as possible.
    Brad

    Also, the easy maintenance of the Civic helps too.
     
  9. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(softhands @ Feb 28 2007, 01:37 PM) [snapback]398044[/snapback]</div>
    Hey Brad,

    that's fantastic mileage with the Civic! Over on the west coast, I'm getting around 4.3-4.5L/100km in the summer and 4.5-5.0L/100km in the winter. Keep in mind we rarely get snow and it's mainly city driving. Rarely any highway unless I head down south to the States in the summer (at which point I get 5.1L/100km at 70mph dead. Did that for a 2 hour trip to Bellevue and I got 5.1L/100km across the board on the screen [the bar graphs] and as an avg. readout)


    The car still has plenty of life left. And in Canada, the base Prius will set you back $31k++ (aminus Ontario tax credit).

    It'll really depend on what you want vs. what you need. You didn't say but I'll assume it's an LX sedan.

    The Prius adds:
    ABS w/EBD (Civic only has ABS)
    Brake Assist
    Traction Control
    rear centre headrest
    15" alloys
    CD/MP3/WMA
    AUX Input
    6 speakers
    larger centre console box
    dual glovebox
    Underfloor cargo bin/box
    Fold flat 60/40 rear seats
    Push button start
    Electronic shift-by-wire transmission
    7" LCD Multi-Info Display
    steering wheel mounted audio and climate control
    Automatic Climate Control w/Humidity sensor
    Electrically-operated A/C compressor (runs off the battery, not the engine)
    Coolant Thermos (stored hot/warm coolant after shut down to heat up the engine quicker upon startup)
    Mudguards
    Cargo Net
    Wheel Locks
    Dual rear cupholders
    Rear spoiler
    LED brakelights

    You lose a tach and about 5hp and 5lb-ft of torque lol.

    - Also, do you need a hatchback?
    - Do you have the finance? (i.e. are you willing to spend on a new car or would you rather spend the money elsewhere?)
    - The Prius is shorter in length than the Civic but it's quite large inside. Do you need/want the extra space?
    - If you want the toys, you'll probably have to step up to Package "B" at $35k w/ the Smart Key System.

    With regards to emissions, it depends on what the hybrid has and what the regular car has.

    Emissions relies on the engine output, the cat converter and so forth. The Prius is rated AT-PZEV which is Advanced Technology, Partial Zero Emissions Vehicle.

    It's 2 levels down from your Civic's ULEV. (Well, 1.5 levels since AT-PZEV falls under SULEV)


    Lastly, take a test drive anyway. I always say that a test drive in a Prius is worth the time whether you're going to buy or not.
     
  10. NoMoShocks

    NoMoShocks Electrical Engineer

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    Too bad you don't like bells and whistles. If you did, the decision would become a "No-Brainer".

    I hate to admit it, but I made the mistake of buying a 2006 Civic Hybrid. I was only getting around 38 MPG.

    I decided to bite the bullet and trade it for a 2007 Prius becuase I love the hatchback, and all the cool toys. But, with the tax credits on both cars, I really didn't loose out as bad as I could have without tax credits.

    There is no comparison between the Prius and Civic Hybrid. The Prius has a lot more get up and go, and has been giving me about 45 mpg.
     
  11. Bob Allen

    Bob Allen Captainbaba

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    If your only concern is for mileage and the Civic is in good operating condition, it probably doesn't make a whole lot of sense to upgrade. You called it an "upgrade", so, presumably, you like the Prius and consider it a step up. There are other reasons to buy a Prius:
    1. You would be supporting a transitional technology that will help lead us away from petroleum. While the Prius uses petroleum, it uses less than half the national average. The electric motor in the Hybrid Synergy drive can be joined to other engines, diesels burning biodiesel for example, or to fuel cells. What Toyota (and others) are learning from the development of hybrid technology is going to lead to hybrid/plug in electric cars with decent range under electrical power alone and phenomenal range on the highway.
    2. The Prius puts out significantly less pollution and CO2 than any other car currently in production ( the Honda Insight went out of production in 2006).
    3. The Prius is simply the coolest sedan on the road, very practical, fun to drive and probably the most well engineered car in production.

    Honda makes excellent cars; your Civic should last a long time if it's been well cared for. You didn't mention what your car is worth so it's hard to factor the price differential into my response. You will not recoup your purchase cost, or the difference in price between the Civic and Prius soley on the basis of fuel consumption, so, again, if fuel economy alone is your criterion, then you're probably better off saving your money.
     
  12. subarutoo

    subarutoo New Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(usbseawolf2000 @ Feb 28 2007, 01:57 PM) [snapback]398057[/snapback]</div>
    Since you live in Canada, Traction Control may not be a feature you want, but all Prius come with it. It is more like Traction OVER-control, and not much use if it snows. From what I've heard. I live in California, so all I know about snow is what I've read. Lots of negative posts about Prius TC vs. snow, tho.
     
  13. usbseawolf2000

    usbseawolf2000 HSD PhD

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(subarutoo @ Mar 1 2007, 01:00 PM) [snapback]398558[/snapback]</div>
    I think a lot of those negative posts are from either:

    - 04 MY without the updated software.
    - Extreme weather -- a lot of snow (8-12 inches) and extreme expectation.

    Dennis
     
  14. brick

    brick Active Member

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    Well, I was getting on the order of 35mpg out of my '02 Accord with loads of life left in it, and traded it for the Prius. But I don't think I would have made the switch if I hadn't had so much trouble dealing with the limited carrying capacity of the 2-door. The hatchback was what I needed, the hybrid goodies and associated gas mileage were what I wanted, so I parted with my money and it was a done deal. Three cold months in and I couldn't be happier with the car. For what it's worth, I haven't had the traction control issues. I always run snow tires in the winter, and the Prius is no worse than the Accord which didn't have traction control of any kind.
     
  15. softhands

    softhands New Member

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    Hey, thanks again for the replies. The vehicle is worth approximately $10000CAD. It was 123XXXkm's on it.

    The vehicle like I said is very good, I maintain it as best I can. Oil change every 5k km's, with good quality oil and oil filter. K&N air filter, cleaned regularly. I know this will last us a long time.

    As for me calling the Prius an upgrade, I consider it that more in term's of social responsibility I think. I do like my toy's, I'm a normal 23 year old male, but the past few years I've out grown the need to have new toy's. Especially when it comes to vehicles, I'm a lot more responsible with my money now. Thats why I got rid of a 6 cylinder vehicle, I didn't like the amount of gas I wasting, regardless of the coolness factor of having a sporty car.

    Someone mentioned poorer performance in winter weather? Being in Ontario we get a fair amount of that. For instance right now in about 2 hours we have about 15 cm's fallen. Is that an issue?

    I guess basically I understand the social benefits, but being young and a student for the next few months I need to see some financial benefit as well.

    Brad
     
  16. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(softhands @ Mar 1 2007, 11:59 AM) [snapback]398642[/snapback]</div>
    If you do get one, my advice is to do a deal with the dealer and swap out the stock tyres. I don't know which part of Ontario you're in but if you really do get quite a bit of snow, then you really do need winter tyres on this car.
     
  17. sub3marathonman

    sub3marathonman Active Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(softhands @ Mar 1 2007, 04:59 PM) [snapback]398642[/snapback]</div>
    If you're 23 and a student, I would definitely keep the excellent running Civic. It will probably last you another 10 years if you take care of it. And think of it this way, they've already made the Civic you're driving, so somebody is going to be driving it. Why shouldn't it be you? That isn't irresponsible, that's practical. If someday you get a good paying job and can afford the upgraded car, whatever it might be, that would be great too. And if you're getting almost 40 mpg you're doing better than 95% of the people out there too.

    But remember, at 23, every dollar you save is worth $4 when you're 47, and $16 when you're 71 (and that is just at a relatively modest 6% return). I figured out that a girl I knew (much younger than me) who just had to rent an appartment for a year spent $250,000 worth of savings when she would be retired.

    Another time a coworker asked me how to get ahead financially. (I don't know why they were asking me, but that's another story.) I told him look at the other coworker, she started here and the first thing she did was get a car and car payments, she'll never get ahead. Another coworker hadn't saved $1 her entire life and didn't even have a bank account. I told him, "You always want to have interest working for you instead of against you." A few weeks later the guy shows up in a new car, so that was the last advice I gave him.
     
  18. softhands

    softhands New Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(sub3marathonman @ Mar 1 2007, 03:25 PM) [snapback]398663[/snapback]</div>

    Hey, I agree with you. I'm in an Insurance/Finance class, finishing in April. I'll be getting a great job with great pay. I understand the point your making. I totally agree, which is why I will never buy a truck, and I will never be renting past my schooling... it is a complete and total waste of money. I don't consider the Prius a waste of money though, as hopefully it will spur change, more then it has already. However, I need to weigh the benefits against the cons closely because I am buying a house with my girlfriend this October.

    I think I have my answer now, and will stick with this good car. The fact is I get far better mileage then the vast majority of people. And by the time a plug in hybrid arrives I will invest and get one of those.

    Thanks for all the informative answers. I'll stick around the forum anyway, lots to learn here.

    Brad