Consumer Reports October 2004: Full/Mild Hybrids

Except that of course in the Silverado the motor can't even supplement the gasoline engine. :lol:

 

At first I thought the Silverado motor was just for raising and lowering the power windows!


Then I got curious and went to the Chevy site to see what it was all about. The truck is a generator for four 120-volt AC outlets, which only work when it is parked. I guess that is for the tailgate parties where you need your refridgerator plugged in to keep your steaks and beer cold. :silly:


The hybrid technology adds nothing to the operation of the truck - Unless you are a late sleeper and need to plug in your coffee pot and toaster after you get to work!


Ok, I guess it could be useful if you were a contractor, but to call this a hybrid...please. :crazyeyes:

 

They need to go to three levels!!!! :guns: Full, Mild and Barely Hybrid. GM is riding a wave that will wipe them out. This is bad, This it very bad. GM has no hybrid technology but wasn’t to "ride the wave" They bet the farm on hydrogen and lost for now. Their "skate board if it ever makes it" is a great piece of engineering, once they work out the distance bugs, and the distribution system is developed. Let me add that we need a few green ways of generating Hydrogen before we go ahead with Hydrogen.

 

Just to be clear...

GM's "light" hybrids use the electric motor for power steering, A/C, and other mechanical accessories as well as the electrical systems (and outlets). Since they can generate electricity through regenerative braking as well as from the gas engine, this does provide a tiny increase in mileage even though the motor can't help propel the vehicle.

Honda's hybrid system does allow for the electric motor to assist the gas engine in powering the wheels, but the gas engine has to be running to move the car. (Honda says their system is built for maximum adaptability: all they need is two inches of free space and they can attach it to any engine in any vehicle.)

Only Toyota's hybrid system (including the Classic Prius-derived system licensed for the Ford Escape) can drive without using the gas engine all the time.

 

include Citroen (sp) in Europe jumping on the auto stop/auto start system that GM uses, and it cost the same as the one without it. Read that they figure it will save 4-5%on the fleet average. Small car, crowded narrow streets, many stops in a short distance. They evaluated the full hybrid system and concluded that it was not cost effective.

 

Except that I don't think that Citroen are calling it anything more than a "stop/start" system.

The line has been blurred a bit, because some stop-start systems can manage a small amount of regenerative braking, thus improving efficiency slightly more than just the engine stop.

Now, regenerative braking is a key feature in real-life hybrids, just as it is in pure-electric cars, and it's a great idea to add it to pure-ICE cars, but having it doesn't make the car a hybrid any more than, say, just fitting a Prius-style electric A/C system would.

What we need is some snappy, easy-to-understand terminology to cover these systems so they don't feel they have to hijack the "hybrid" label to explain it.

I'd suggest just calling them "stop/start" systems, which appears to be what the UK motoring press is calling them. You could then split them into mild ones that just stop the engine, and strong ones which can perform regenerative braking.

 

that's exactly what they are calling it. stop/start, and as far as I'm concerened it's a good idea. In fact I'll bet that the N/A auto manufacturers are looking into it as we speak/type. What would, say 4.5% of the fuel used in N/A amount to, Millions of gallons per year if not billions.

 

so the escape is a true hybrid... i had not known that.. but i am wary of anything that american car companies do as they have a track record of doing what is right for their bottom line without any regard to our needs.

a telling line in a movie I saw, when a guy working for one of the auto makers; his job was to determine if the payout from lawsuits would exceed the cost of a recall for a vehicle safety defect.

if the cost was higher, then the recall happened. if it did not, then the company took their chances that some would not sue...

as bad as that sounds, i can easily believe that that is what they really do.

 

Just want to say ditto to that! The whole hydrogen economy is a boatload of %#@& until/unless there is a substantial capability to generate hydrogen from renewable energy sources. Bush's funding hydrogen projects is a scam to ensure our continued dependence on fossil fuels, because the only realistic way we ahve to generate hydrogen is to use fossil (or nuclear) fuel. Until we have substantial renewable capability, hydrogen is essentially useless as a fuel.

 

Considering that Hydrogen is the ultimate source of all energy in the universe, I think it's quite a useful fuel. We have much to learn in how to use it effectively.

 

and that we will in about 10-15 years...

i personally dont think that we can wait that long

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(hdrygas\";p=\"39471)</div>

Or, when dealing with the Silverado: Full, Mild, and Hypebrid.

Glad to see the "Full" and "Mild" labels are becoming widely used in the media.

 

shouldnt that be

Full

half-assed

and

wannaby??

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(DaveinOlyWA\";p=\"40127)</div>

Full
Mild
Poser

After all, a mild hybrid is useful too and should not be disparaged . . . least Prii owners earn a snob status.

If I attach an everyday run of the mill battery charger - doesn’t that then qualify any car as a Hypebrid?

 

i've said this before, and i'll throw it in here again. i just hope GM, with this nonsense, doesn't do to the hybrid market what it did to the diesel market with it's mid 80's olds diesels. such crap that NO carmaker could sell a diesel successfully in a car pretty much until now, when they are starting a little comeback.

 

I think that with the sucess of Toyota the public will see that GM hybrids for what they are. In the 80's I believe GM was first with the diesel's that backfired, now they are last and the public will see why.

Also why did Ford Escape get classified as full hybrid? I thought to be a full hybrid electric should be able to power everything so there is no difference between gas and electric power, with Ford you need gas engine to run the A/C ( I believe)

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(aarons12\";p=\"40488)</div>

One of the long-term objectives of my website has always been to cushion the negative fallout, an inevitable result of the automakers trying to play catch up after they discover just how impressive Toyota's technology really is.

There quite simply is no way to prevent it. But at least we can soften the blow by reducing the impact as much as possible. And with so much real-world data already and so many absolutely delighted Prius owners, it's going to be hard to keep us quiet... on the defense.


On the offense, that's a different story. I am calling the pitiful attempt at new automotive technology by GM a "mock" hybrid. The thing doesn't even fit the definition of hybrid. And since GM had the impressive EV1 and has bragged about their fuel-cell design, there is simply no excuse. The proof that they know how to work effectively use electric motors for propulsion is quite plentiful. So why the heck didn't they even try with their hybrid? No propulsion whatsoever is provided by electricity. And of course, smog-related emissions are ignored entirely.

It's sad that we have to put up with this crap. But at least we stand a chance of winning in the end. This time, they won't be able to ruin the market and force us to believe we need something different. We've got enough of a head start and a lot of good people already interested in helping out. We'll tell them what we want instead.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(paprius4030\";p=\"40491)</div>

Realistically, it's only the propulsion system that needs to be both.

After all, that is the purpose of a vehicle.

The extra stuff, like A/C, is exactly that: extra... no at all necessary to get from point A to point B. But having those extras sure are nice.

 

john is right... only the method of motivation has to be completely one or the other.