Capital Punishment?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(dbermanmd @ Mar 8 2007, 03:47 PM) [snapback]402401[/snapback]</div>

I don't remember saying I wanted to "make nice" with any of these folks. It is not justice for Jessica though, and even you should understand that. If anything, it's just revenge for the survivors. There is NOTHING that could provide justice for an already murdered child. It is an abomination and a horror, and nothing could make it okay--no amount of law, nothing.

You would seek revenge, not justice.

And I don't have dingbat concepts. How in the world am I putting you and your family in greater danger than you are by saying that there can be no justice in an atrocity like this?

And btw, I've never said I didn't believe in the death penalty. I do. I also believe we need to fix our judicial system to take care of those who are undoubtedly guilty quickly.

My point is, my small-brained comrade, that once a crime like this has been done, NOTHING will ever "fix" it.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(livelychick @ Mar 8 2007, 03:58 PM) [snapback]402407[/snapback]</div>

[sarcasm]
Oh, livleychick. There you go again. Calling evil good and good evil. Will you never learn?
[/sarcasm]

 

..wait guys, I have some suggestions:

* What a waste of good material. He can still give back to society. He is full of spare parts

* Send him to Iraq to 'clean up'

* ...oh no wait "Not tested on animals! Tested on humans!" comes to mind.

Honestly though, I think we should study this creep and find out what made him that way, so that we may prevent it in the future. I think we are too quick solving the problem, without finding out what created it in the first place.

And no, I don't have any sympathy for him, but I consider a lifetime of misery, where every day is reminder of your wrong doing more effective then doing him the favour and relieving him of his obligation to learn his lesson.

But let me ask you this. Is there *anything* this guy can do now to pay his debt to society? No I won't take "fry the bassard" as paying back a debt. The victim is still dead, her suffering is no less real or imagined just because he is dead as well. I don't mean for him to necessarily redeem himself to be freed or forgiven some day, I mean does he possess something that can benefit the great good?

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(desynch @ Mar 8 2007, 02:24 PM) [snapback]402355[/snapback]</div>

No, what was it about?

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Stev0 @ Mar 8 2007, 02:32 PM) [snapback]402359[/snapback]</div>

This guy admitted to the crime, his and Jessica'a DNA was all over his bedroom mattress, and I have followed this case since day one. I live in FL and work with elementary school kids. He also had some incest MF's in that trailer helping him diappear on a bus. trust me, this MF is guilty as sin, and he had a prior sexual crime conviction. He slipped through the cracks & was not registered as a sexual predator.

I'm all for any innocent people on death row being freed if it can be proven. If I had a son who did a crime like this I would stand by my statements. Nine year old girls are innocent. Can you imagine the horror that little girl went through for three days?

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(livelychick @ Mar 8 2007, 03:11 PM) [snapback]402380[/snapback]</div>

I never wanted revenge. I work with elementary school kids. They are innocent and sweet at her age. None of them deserve to be raped and killed.

I had not shed tears in 20 years, but when I heard what happened to Jessica I cried for her. I know of no other way to punish that sick, twisted animal except death. What would be the point of keeping him alive? He was a piece of s**t with a prior sex conviction and contributed nothing to society. Why would anyone on this forum disagree with a death verdict for this guy?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Oxo @ Mar 8 2007, 03:31 PM) [snapback]402390[/snapback]</div>

In the Old Testament God came down hard on those who went against him. Sometimes one has to forget the Bible and do what one feels is right in his or her heart.

 

For those who are interested in Jessica Lou Dobbs on CNN may have something tonight as he carried extensive coverage of this rape/murder. You can also go to the Crystal River, FL newspaper. The address I have is www.topix.net/city/crystal-river-fl

 

What I find interesting in the death penalty debate is the illogical reversal of what should be people's natural views:

The "bleeding hearts" who consider the death penalty cruel, advocate the far more cruel penalty of life in prison.

The hard-liners who want vengeance against nasty people, want to give him the easy way out and an end of all suffering, by killing him quickly (which is the way death is imposed in the U.S.).

And since the government spends more money to execute someone than to keep him in prison for life, fiscal conservatives should prefer imprisonment, but conservatives usually want the more expensive death penalty.

Prison inmates, by the way, have a very strong moral sense, and very strong ideas about what crimes are morally permissible and which are not. Drug dealing is viewed by most prison inmates as merely making a living in a free-market economy. Sex crimes, however, are despised, and sex offenders have a very bad time of it in prison.

So, because I get as angry as the next person at news of child-rapists, I think this guy should be sentenced to life in prison, if he is actually guilty.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Walker1 @ Mar 8 2007, 05:11 PM) [snapback]402441[/snapback]</div>

Nobody is saying this scumbag is innocent. Nobody is saying this scumbag isn't a scumbag. BUT...

That's not the question. The question is how would you feel if your son was Anthony Graves or Ruben Cantu?

How many innocent people is it acceptable to execute?

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(daniel @ Mar 8 2007, 06:23 PM) [snapback]402479[/snapback]</div>

What other "crimes" do prison inmates deem "morally permissible"?

Besides the ones that got them in prison, I mean? Assault and murder is OK, as long as it's not on a kid?

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Stev0 @ Mar 8 2007, 07:27 PM) [snapback]402502[/snapback]</div>

I don't know the above mentioned persons. I am only interested in John Couey. It's just the way I feel. I don't normally read about death row inmate problems.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(daniel @ Mar 8 2007, 06:23 PM) [snapback]402479[/snapback]</div>

Daniel, This is not "just" a sex crime. Jessica was buried alive after 3 days and nights of horror. Add to that she was a young child who was liked and loved by everyone who knew her. I have a very hard time with this crime. Jessica was the perfect little girl who would have made a positive contribution to society. I don't know how else to explain it. It makes me sad just thinking about it.


An article in the St. Petersburg Times dated March 7, 2007 tells much about the victim and John Couey. www.sptimes.com

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Walker1 @ Mar 8 2007, 08:38 PM) [snapback]402531[/snapback]</div>

You see, in order to LEGALLY kill the Bad Guys, you first have to make it legal to kill the Bad Guys.

Unfortunately, a lot of innocent people get labeled as Bad Guys and are executed before the evidence that would have cleared them comes out, like the 19-year-old mentioned above. The innocent 19-year-old who you don't care was killed in the name of the Great State of Texas. And you don't care the innocent 19-year-old was killed because you don't want to know.

So, now the obvious question, then, is:

WHY THE HELL ARE YOU POSTING OPINIONS ABOUT THINGS YOU ADMIT YOU KNOW NOTHING ABOUT?

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(DelerPrius @ Mar 8 2007, 05:04 PM) [snapback]402523[/snapback]</div>

Prison inmates are, with a few psychopathic exceptions, not all that different from the rest of us. Perhaps the main difference is that they are likely to view the underground economy as perfectly legitimate. Thus, drug dealing is seen as merely catering to a demand. Theft is likely to be classified according to who stole from whom: Since the rich are rich because the poor have to work for nothing, bank robbery is not likely to be frowned upon. Violence is not generally excused, although a person convicted of violence is likely to be convinced he had a good reason for it. But he won't find much sympathy from other inmates. And prison inmates are more aware than is the population at large, of the systematic corruption throughout the "justice" system that preferentially imprisons poor folks while letting rich folks go free.

They are also likely to judge a murder according to the circumstances, as many people on the outside do. A man kills another in a barroom brawl. He's probably admired for standing up for himself. A man kills his wife's lover. He'd probably find sympathy. Muggers are considered pretty low characters. And though you may be surprised to hear it, inmates are often very sentimental, and they hate rapists. A man who's in prison for murdering a child will have a very very hard time of it, as he'll be regarded as the lowest of the low by the men he must live with.

Spending the rest of you life locked up with people who hate you is a very severe punishment. Far worse than a quick death. So I say, put this guy in prison for life.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Walker1 @ Mar 8 2007, 05:38 PM) [snapback]402531[/snapback]</div>

This is why I advocate the more brutal punishment of imprisonment for life rather than the relatively easy out of a quick execution.

 

I feel that christians are called to live by the law of their land. If the law calls for capital punishment then "so be it". According to OT scripture murderers are to be put to death, if the murder was intentional. We should however be willing to forgive and let live if he were to repent and live a "good" life. I think in this case, he is not willing to change and therefore should die.
To the poster who mentioned - turn the other cheek- If I were the victim or family of the victim I would. We should don't seek personal justice. It should be left to the law.

 

The United States of America is unquestionably the most violent country in this world. Violence breeds violence. We sanction it in the movies we watch, the lack of respect we demand from our children and our children engage in music which promotes a violent society. The trend is there for anyone to see. We are one of the few western countries who still use capital punishment. Those countries who have stopped using capital punishment have not seen a rise in violent crimes. So from empirical evidence alone we would be better off if we just stopped this violence justified by the State just because it is law.

I recall a time when, as a child, I visited the United Kingdom with my parents and notice that the "Bobbies" who are their policemen did not carry guns. I thought it odd as I knew that policemen carried guns back home. I found it very interesting that it was only after they sanctioned the use of guns by the police that violent crimes through the use of gun fire BEGAN to increase in the United Kingdom.

Again, empirically I believe that our country has the ability to rot from within. If we don't reverse our ways we are doomed. We need to return tools to parents so they may discipline them so they learn to respect. Otherwise we will have a country full of adults who don't understand the word "respect". Isn't that what is at the root of our violent problems? For verification see Japans gun usage versus their reverence of respect. There is a big lesson for us to learn.

Stop capital punishment. It only teaches that it is ok to kill.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(TonyPSchaefer @ Mar 8 2007, 10:07 AM) [snapback]402289[/snapback]</div>

The inevitability of caprice and mistake is why I can't support capital punishment for most crimes, even heinous ones like this. Even former detective Mark Fuhrman, the conservative who was embarrassed by the "n" word in the OJ trial, has changed sides now that he's investigated some of the prosecutions across the country. (See the reviews for his book "Death and Justice").

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Stev0 @ Mar 8 2007, 08:55 PM) [snapback]402549[/snapback]</div>

If I wanted to do research on innocent inmates I would do so. There's no need for attitude or rudeness. This post was started over John Couey. I do know what you are referencing. My thoughts are on this case at this time. I already stated that innocent people on death row should be released when evidence is found to free them.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(daniel @ Mar 8 2007, 09:34 PM) [snapback]402571[/snapback]</div>

I respect your opinion.