Who's YOUR God?

I voted atheist...but I really wanted FSM.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(efusco @ Mar 8 2007, 09:17 AM) [snapback]402190[/snapback]</div>

Yeah--I think they may make up the 5 contrarian votes! (along with me...)

I would have thought we had a Hindu or two here, as well, but we've received no votes for polytheism. Perhaps they just haven't read the post...

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(efusco @ Mar 8 2007, 09:17 AM) [snapback]402190[/snapback]</div>

I think they're more pissed at being lumped in with those HEATHEN YOU'RE BURNING IN HELL religions like Jews, Muslims, and any brand of Christianity that isn't their own.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(efusco @ Mar 8 2007, 09:17 AM) [snapback]402190[/snapback]</div>

What did you expect? The poll isn't "tongue-in-cheek", it is obviously flawed and almost blasphemous.
Where does the Bible say that God is "A being with eyes, hair, nose and all the external appearances of a light skinned male humanoid"? Instead, the Bible teaches that God is a being of infinite power who lives in a non-physical/spirit realm. So, not only does he NOT look anything like us, but we cannot even be in his presence, as we would be killed by the energy/emissions/power of him. Imagine trying to stand on the sun, which is a tiny fraction of the energy that came from him. You need to separate VISIONS that he gave people of him, or illustrations or similes that are intended to help us understand him better, but not painting a LITERAL picture for us of what he looks like.

I don't even know WHAT that is all about!??? :blink:

No, I don't believe that, as it is never expressed in the Bible.

Again, a very facetious statement. God does not "tinker". He has an expresses purpose for the earth, and has always been working out that purpose. He has had to make adjustments, primarily because MAN chose not to obey him, but declared their independance from him, but that has not changed his purpose.

More facetious lies, which do not amuse me whatsoever. As I discussed in the other (trolling) Hellfire thread, Hell is the invention of man/the Devil. God does desire to have a friendship with each and every human, but if they have chosen not to they have simply DIED. He is not punishing them eternally.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(keydiver @ Mar 8 2007, 01:46 PM) [snapback]402319[/snapback]</div>

This isn't tongue in cheek?

 

I like the "God is everything" model. Just a sentient ball of matter and energy, that performs a Big Bang every once in a while, and uses parts of itself to form stars and planets and whatever else you can identify. Since every last particle is interconnected by the nuclear force commonly called 'gravity', there would be an awareness of everything going on that parallels the omniscience normally considered to be available to God, and someday when we figure out how to use gravity for communication like we now do electrons we might find the lines are busy.

For whatever reason, some chunks of the ball are allowed to become self-aware or 'alive'. The ones most self-aware make up rules as to how they got that way, leading to things like religions. This may or may not amuse the ball. Since all eventually collapses back into one, it probably doesn't matter.

This model fits with available evidence somewhat better than plenty of the others. When you require that a theist God always existed but is completely outside any concept of physical being, the idea that we were made "in his image" requires more explaining than is ever actually provided. You know, what image does 'nothing' have?

Rather comforting that there's no heaven or hell, just long periods of time where we rejoin the un-self-aware parts of the ball as it completes its cycle until it expands again. This time around we look like we do, some other time we might be more like some Star Trek gas-creatures. Or, it could be that each and every time everything is really close to exactly the same, and that where deja vu comes from. One may never know.

Of course, theists demand the origin of the ball. The REAL God must have made the ball, because things that exist go away. Only a theist God, who doesn't exist but has infinite power, can have always existed. However, nothing really goes away. There's probably no leakage of matter and energy at the edges of the expanded ball (universe) since gravity connects everything. Since no origin story of the theist God is required (allowed?), demanding one here seems petty and self-serving, so we move on.

It would be interesting to find out what lies beyond the edges of the expanded ball. More balls, like the ending of "Men In Black" depicts? do not know, but given a choice between a comforting version of what's going on or a do-what-I-and-this-old-book-tell-you-or-I'll-have-God-torture-you-forever version, I like this one...

 

I voted atheist. I don't believe there is a god, at least by any description I've ever read.

I do believe there's a "force" (shut up, Yoda) that exists, but does not guide us. It's more of an inter-connectedness knd of energy that can be at least influenced, if not channeled/controlled. I have had very brief contact with this in moments of deep meditation and, unbelieveably, during athletic pursuits. They have been few in occurence, almost seeming to be most elusive when actually "trying" to get there, as if the occurence may be inversely proportional to the desire...

 

MikePaul, that was awesome! :lol: The weaving of philosophy, biology, theology and quantum mechanics was great.

 

Didn't you leave out "I am God" as in we have God inside of us. We are all God.

Wouldn't that be the gnostics?

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(mikepaul @ Mar 8 2007, 05:31 PM) [snapback]402420[/snapback]</div>

I can see eternal life, in a way, for the parts that recombine again and again, but I think of what makes us 'us' as unique and temporary. I have trouble with the concept of a sentient, theistic control of every cell and particle, past, present, and future. With apologies to Einstein, 'life' does indeed play dice with the universe, but by using so many dice and trying so many combinations that something is certain to survive. No one thing lives forever, but hopefully 'LIFE' will.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(ZenCruiser @ Mar 8 2007, 09:55 PM) [snapback]402550[/snapback]</div>

On a really good cycling day when the air is fresh with springly exuberance, it feels like I'm sitting still and the world is spinning beneath me. Call it a 'lifeforce', the 'dance of shiva' or 'zen cruising' , there's definitely an 'alive' energy I'm part of. Maybe it is Yoda, maybe it's just adrenaline and endorphins.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(hyo silver @ Mar 8 2007, 11:23 PM) [snapback]402614[/snapback]</div>

Takes liberties with my screen name, he does...much plagiarism in this one there is

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(hyo silver @ Mar 8 2007, 08:23 PM) [snapback]402614[/snapback]</div>

I felt that very strongly when I was in the Bristlecone forest in the White Mountains last summer. Quite unexpected it was yet familiar. That was the closest I have ever come to experiencing what some religious people claim to feel. Chemical reactions or something more mystical I cannot say but it was definately a moving experience.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(keydiver @ Mar 8 2007, 10:46 AM) [snapback]402319[/snapback]</div>

Are you saying that god is incapable of being near us without killing us? That suggests that he is not all-powerful after all.

Energy is the capacity to do work, and it can be measured. If god is made of something measurable, such as energy, then he should be detectable by simple scientific instruments.

The fact that he has never been detected seems to suggest either that he very probably does not exist, or that your discription of him is mistaken.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Godiva @ Mar 8 2007, 06:24 PM) [snapback]402566[/snapback]</div>

If I am not mistaken, the gnostic view was that critical factor in salvation is knowledge. It's what you know that matters. (Just as the Pentacostalists say it's what you believe that matters and at least some Catholics say it's what you do that matters.)

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(daniel @ Mar 9 2007, 01:33 AM) [snapback]402668[/snapback]</div>

No, I'm not saying that, the Bible is:
"You are not able to see my face, because no man may see me and yet live". (Exodus 33:20 NWT)
You have absolutely no concept of the power of God, and your reasoning is facetious. You might as well use the tried and true "if God can create a rock he can't lift he isn't all-powerful" circular reasoning. We are created in a physical realm, of flesh and blood, and God inhabits the spirit realm. Deal with it. God DOES NOT and WILL NOT appear directly to humans. However, those that are chosen to go to heaven, and are given spirit bodies, are able to be in his presence. He created us to live in this physical realm, and there are many forms of radiation and energy that are deadly to us, but would not be deadly to spirit beings. Its just a simple fact, nothing more, nothing less.

Ok, now you're getting into my field of science, and I can tell you truthfully that if you are naive enough to think that man has discovered EVERY form of energy in the universe, or has invented equipment to DETECT every form of energy, you are sadly ignorant. I'm afraid that your god, science, has only begun to scratch the surface when it comes to energy. Even something relatively simple, like the composition and behavior of photons is far from understood. Your own science speculates that there are alternate dimensions, possibly even alternate realities, and that's "OK", but don't let any "religious nut" tell you that God exists in a dimension that we can't detect. No, that would be CRAZY! :blink:
(Now, THAT'S tongue-in-cheek)

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(keydiver @ Mar 9 2007, 12:28 PM) [snapback]402968[/snapback]</div>

I think the study of quantum physics has done more to cast doubt on atheism than anything else in the 21st century. It opens up a whole new realm of possibilities. Even if M-theory doesn't pan out there is still so much we don't know.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(airportkid @ Mar 9 2007, 01:28 PM) [snapback]403007[/snapback]</div>

My point is that for many people there is a black or white picture of science or religion. Most people that I know that do not believe in a god feel this way because god cannot be seen or proven by science. There are a great many things that science cannot prove and later we find out there there "is something else there". I'm not even remotely trying to insinuate that scientists will throw up their hands and believe a gd created all this. I am simply stating that in light of the many "new" findings in science who can really say what is out there beyond our prying eyes and machines. Possibilities or "potentials" is all I am refering to. I do not believe in any gods but I do keep an open mind because I realize there is far too much we don't know and sticking with a conviction that there are no higher "beings" is almost as rediculous as beleiving in one 100%. Just my opinion obviously.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(keydiver @ Mar 9 2007, 12:28 PM) [snapback]402968[/snapback]</div>

"God" is nothing more than a catch-all used by unimaginative people to explain anything they do not understand. They define "god" as unknowable, and yet they claim to know him. They define "god" as all-powerful, yet they claim he cannot do anything they do not want him to do (such as admit all people to heaven, regardless of their beliefs, without some perverse "sacrifice" of "his son," or admit a human into his presence without killing him, or even behave in a decent or common-sense manner.)

And they counter every argument with something very like your statement: You (the unbeliever) cannot comprehend. Only I (the believer) understand. Therefore you (the unbeliever) should believe everything I (the believer) say to you without question, based on a two-thousand-year-old anthology of myth and poetry, collected by clerics with the express purpose of strengthening their own political power.

God is invoked to explain whatever people do not understand, and then, whenever they stumble on something that science does not yet understand, the preachers jump for joy and proclaim that that "proves" the existance of god. The fallacious "logic" is: If you don't understand something, then my imaginary man in the sky must be responsible for it.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(F8L @ Mar 9 2007, 02:01 PM) [snapback]403014[/snapback]</div>

Science has never yet found that there is anything supernatural out there. Science chips away at ignorance slowly but surely, and the answer has never yet been "god." And quantum mechanics offers no support for religion whatsoever. On the contrary: It shows how, much of what was once attributed to god by superstitious folks is actually explainable by science, even if that science is incomprehensible to people who are mathematically illiterate (sometimes called inumerate).

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(daniel @ Mar 9 2007, 03:08 PM) [snapback]403058[/snapback]</div>

I guess I just see things differently. I will state again that I do not mean to imply that new science findings support god or religion but that we continually find things we never knew existed. When I stated such I did not mean supernatural, I was refering to things like life near black smokers, or dark matter, or the break down of macro physics in the atomic world etc.