I need some buying guidance

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(pvsurfer @ Dec 9 2006, 04:59 PM) [snapback]359832[/snapback]</div>

Not in southern cal, but...

I think there's only about 6 packages of options -- they're all clearly described on the Toyota web site. And plenty of Chicago area dealers were getting in "base" models, meaning cars with little or no accessories.

Further, a large shipment of 2007s seems to have arrived in the US in mid-November, and if you check more posts here, you'll see a lot of people talking about getting cars for substantially less than MSRP. My advice would be to call a wide area of dealers and search some to the threads here. I bought my car in Chicago in November; no one in Chicago had them, but when I started shopping the suburbs, my options really opened up.

 

Last time I checked the Prius was not on the Costco discount list. But dealers who participate in Costco's auto buying program will generally throw Prius inquiries a bone to keep folks from going back to Costco and complaining about a program dealer which won't give them a discount. Program dealers have to keep the Costco members happy less they loose their right to participate in the Costco program.

As for SoCal pricing on the Prius, it has always been way off compared to other parts of the nation. Shop around, and especially look toward rural dealerships which have lower volume in vehicles and cannot convince the unwashed masses of urban buyers that higher sales prices are reasonable for a "vehicle that is in demand".

Rural dealers will generally charge no more than MSRP and are usually more hospitable to deal with than big city dealers.

 

Never buy a car that includes options you don't want. Most dealer add-ons and port add-ons are pure profit for the dealer. Always insist that the dealer explain to you in clear, plain language, what is meant by any item on the sticker that is not self-explanatory, and don't pay over MSRP. A few have gotten a Prius under MSRP, but you probably should not expect that.

If the added don't-want-'em costs are low enough that it would not be worth your while shopping elsewhere, consider it the price of convenience of buying at that dealer, but only if those costs are low.

Refuse to pay an advertising fee. Businesses pay for advertising out of their gross revenues. The cost of advertising is already built into the MSRP. A line item for advertising is nothing but a way to charge over MSRP.

There's always a "document fee." People have paid from $30 or $40 up to $500. If it's under $100 I'd say go ahead and pay it. If it's more than $200 I'd say walk away, because it is an indication of an avaricious dealer who will probably treat you poorly after the sale. Just my opinion.

 

Actually even doc fees are crap. Most dealers will charge them since most people pay them, but the only reasonable fee to pay is 'price of car.' Any add-on fees are just ways to inflate profit in a way that most people view in a better light than an increased price 'for the car'.

I bought my Prius in Anderson, IN last month for nearly $1000 off of MSRP, with no fees other than tax added back in. Dealers make their profit by charging more for the car than they pay the dealer--and they generally pay the dealer less than invoice after holdbacks are considered.

'Fair price' in relation to MSRP varies based on the supply/demand in your current location, and as others have pointed out, the situation in SoCal on the Prius favors the dealer.

Anyway, I'm digressing quite a bit--bottom line is that you should find the car with the options you want, strike all fees but tax off the deal, and ask the dealer to give you their best price. Then bring that price to other area dealers and see if any will beat it. Getting a price from one dealer will rarely be a fair price--pitting them against each other will quickly get you near the true market price in your area.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(daniel @ Dec 10 2006, 02:02 PM) [snapback]360037[/snapback]</div>

You are wrong about advertising fees (at least in big cities). Most car dealers band together in big cities to to local advertising on top of what Toyota does nationally and what the dealer itself does. Those charges are included in the invoice and payable by the dealer. Also, in some states the dealer keeps a portion of the sales tax (Maryland) so the processing fee is minimal ($100) but in others like Virginia where they dont' a ~$300 processing fee is the norm and you simply figure that into the pice you pay.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Dharm @ Mar 12 2007, 06:20 PM) [snapback]404432[/snapback]</div>

I agree with Daniel that paying additional fees is just adding profit for the dealer. Advertising is part of the dealer's overhead. Why should the customer pay extra for it? What do you get for the dealer's processing fee? Can you perform the same transaction at the DMV yourself? The dealer pays real estate taxes for the showroom. If he lists it on your bill of sale would you pay it? IMO this is just a scam to bring a price that includes a fair profit back up as close to MSRP as they can get.

 

When buying my wife's '07 (package #2) Prius, we started with a Costco supplier dealer (here in Portland), and the price was OK (supposedly $600 over invoice). I then went through Edmunds and contacted two other dealers, and one immediately went $300 under the Costco price... then the Costco dealer went down an additional $200... then the Edmunds-linked dealer another $150 (to $22600 with the first 4 oil changes). Moral: Costco is a starting place.

 

Test drive one to make sure you fit in it and like the seats and visibility. Shop by phone and fax to save time and bother. Get the best price from many dealers, then see if the dealer you like best will meet the best price. Dealer add ons: Just Say No. See the Consumer's Union (Consumer Reports) website for free car buying advice.

 

<div align="left"><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(JimN @ Mar 12 2007, 09:45 PM) [snapback]404506[/snapback]</div>

You missed the point. If it is not included in the invoice, you are correct it is simply profit. However, if its in the invoice the dealer is paying it and it is a legitimate charge for them to pass on. The same thing goes with taxes, if its a tax that they would pay in the normal course of their business (social security, real estate, business license) then they should not charge it, and most dealers don't. On the other hand, I know my county charges a 2/10 of 1 percent tax (as do all the neighboring jurisdictions) business license tax on everything they sell, then it is a legitimate charge for them to charge. As for processing charges, all the dealers in Virginia charge it but they also have to compete. The processin charge is preprinted ont eh Buyer's Order and you can't negotiate it away but yo do consider the processing fee when negotiating a price (virtually all dealers in Northern Virginia charge between $269 and $319 so the differences are trivial). For example, I bought my Prius at $350 below invoice but I kneow full well they were getting the $289 processing fee so I bought it for around invoice. I could have gone to a dealer in Maryland and saved about $200 on processing fee and $53 in business license tax. However, I would have had to get a ride out there and I wouldn't be able to use that dealer's specials to buyers. The bottom line if its something that is listen on the invoice (advertising fee) or a tax that is based on sales but paid for by the dealer (business license fee) then its legitimate.</div>

 

1. That's not the way the car comes. Shop around and you'll find an honest dealer that won't install crap you don't want and then force you to pay double for it.

2. Why should you pay for their advertising? They're not advertising the Prius. So why should you subsidize the advertising for them to sell their SUVs. Why should you pay at all? Go to someone else.

3. $100 under MSRP? You can do better than that. Shop around.

Check out all of the dealers within a circumference you're willing to drive; I.E. 50 miles, 100 miles, etc.
Contact them online through their internet sales managers. They are better to deal with than the regular salesmen.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Dharm @ Mar 18 2007, 05:58 PM) [snapback]408011[/snapback]</div>

[/b][/quote]

Given that the dealer doesn't actually pay what's on the invoice, I find this reasoning flawed.

In any event, it's up to each buyer to determine what he/she is willing to pay. There's a reason they call them 'dealers'.

 

<_< I try to not get excited about the individual 'line items' on the dealer's invoice and focus on the 'bottom line.' Except for the state tax, it really doesn't matter to me how the dealer reaches the final number.

Seems it's all in your point of view.

 

Where did I talk about installing stuff? If you are dealing with the pinstripes, fabric protection, and rust protection then yes it is a complete ripoff and I prefer not to deal with dealers who do that because they tend to be scummy in other areas (e.g. super aggressive on selling GAP insurance or extended service plans).

As for the advertising fee, the dealer has no choice on whether or not to pay the advertising fee. That's why even the bids I got through Checkbook's (www.checkbook.org) highly acclaimed CarBargains service included the 2.1% advertising fee. You clearly don't know what you are talking about.

You didn't bother to read my post (and there was a typo I had 350 when it was 250), I purchased my vehicle for $250 below INVOICE not MSRP. When you add the $289 processing fee, I paid roughly invoice for the car.


<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Godiva @ Mar 18 2007, 06:10 PM) [snapback]408020[/snapback]</div>

The only thing Toyota dealers (or any other dealers) dont' pay for is the holdback and financial reserve. Sometimes there are factory to dealer incentives, but I'm not aware of any on the Prius (you can typically find out about these from numerous sources). That's the reason dealers can sell a fully loaded vehicle at a better price relative to inoice than a base vehicle (the holdback and financial reserve are more).

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Zaxxon @ Mar 18 2007, 06:56 PM) [snapback]408043[/snapback]</div>