Discouraging Article

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(hill @ Mar 10 2007, 12:45 PM) [snapback]403410[/snapback]</div>

Time for another well actually. Well actually they do still make the big one. it is special order though. Although they start at 129k the h2 starts at 54k and the h3 at 29k. the site does not list the mpg though.


<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Delta Flyer @ Mar 10 2007, 01:11 PM) [snapback]403415[/snapback]</div>

Wait a minute we are supposed to be tree-hugging [/b]vegetarians.

That’s the last draw im selling my Prius I like eating meat.

 

<_< QUOTE: "Careful. . . I'm pretty sure Canada isn't a part of the UK any more."

OOPS!! Mea Culpa... I saw 'Surrey' and U.K. came to mind. Would you believe that's the first mistake I've made? Well... would your believe the second?... *SIGH*

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(IAO @ Mar 10 2007, 10:23 AM) [snapback]403419[/snapback]</div>

H2s have a GVWR of over 8500 lbs and therefore are currently exempt from EPA mileage tests and DON'T count against GM's light truck (or any) CAFE numbers. See http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/which_tested.shtml.

Car and Driver observed 10 mpg with an H2 at http://www.caranddriver.com/article.asp?se...p;page_number=2

The H3 w/automatic is EPA rated 15/19, 17 combined. Car and Driver observed 15 mpg with it at http://www.caranddriver.com/roadtests/9742...r-h3-page4.html.

For comparison, C&D observed 42 mpg w/a current gen Prius per http://www.caranddriver.com/roadtests/7701...ius-page4.html..

 

Wow 10mpg vs 42. Im sold that h2 is sounding better and better.

 

Edmunds averaged 9.2 mpg per http://www.edmunds.com/hummer/h2/2007/review.html.

 

What I find funny is that I have a friend with Suburban that he drives everyday and he is always talking about how the prius sucks. My best comeback for him was when I told him that he goes 70 miles on 10 gallons of gas and I go just over 520. He doesn’t get great mileage in the city

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(efusco @ Mar 9 2007, 07:26 PM) [snapback]403157[/snapback]</div>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(TonyPSchaefer @ Mar 9 2007, 08:24 PM) [snapback]403187[/snapback]</div>

Gimme an "L"...L

 

Ok, at great personal risk here, and acknowledging the biased propaganda of the article, have I missed a reply by anyone that admits that at least their Prius is LESS green than a non hybrid in the nickel department (save for a delorean)? I request no other replies need be made dealing with anything BUT nickel issue.

Perhaps there's more decorative stainless steel in some other schmaltzy models than used in a prius leadbelly battery.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(jeffn @ Mar 22 2007, 11:22 AM) [snapback]410143[/snapback]</div>

Here's your nickel issue.

The Sudbury info is seriously outdated, and the comment about moon buggies (like, when did Nasa test moon buggies — early 1970’s) ought to have given the author a clue. Sudbury was polluted by a century of mining (1870 on). In fact, some of Sudbury’s nickel went into making the Statue of Liberty. Currently, the mine is owned by INCO (not Toyota), and produces 100,000 tons of nickel a year, of which Toyota buys 1000 tons. Nickel, by the way, is primarily used to make stainless steel. The Mail on Sunday newspaper, which ran the story the college article is a thin re-write of (visible here http://www.mailonsunday.co.uk/pages/live/a...in_page_id=1770 ), used a stock photo from 1994 to illustrate the pollution (visible here http://www.photoboy.com/bin/Cklb?vmo=1173985067754 ). There were, of course, no Prius in existence or being manufactured in 1994.

Sudbury is no longer as polluted, as INCO and the city have planted over 8 million trees there since 1979. You can see reports on that on the Sudbury city website at http://www.city.greatersudbury.on.ca/cms/i...ion&lang=en

The acid rain problem David Martin of Greenpeace is talking about in is the situation pre 1972.

In fact, you can even read GM comments bragging about the greening of Sudbury and see photos of some of the reclamation. This GM link actually provides a great history of how Sudbury was devasted and how it has come back (scroll down the page a little to Initiative 44).
http://www.gmcanada.com/inm/gmcanada/engli...aily/Sep22.html

INCO on regreening and SO2 emissions
http://www.inco.com/development/community/...ry/default.aspx

INCO on hybrids batteries
http://www.inco.com/newscentre/featurestories/apr1305.aspx

Below are photos of Barlow Street Into Sudbury, the first one in 1979, the second in 2001.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(jeffn @ Mar 22 2007, 09:22 AM) [snapback]410143[/snapback]</div>

Have you seen the iron mines of northeastern Minnesota? Massive holes in the ground, covering square miles of land each, plus the piles of tailings, looking like ziggurats thousands of feet long. Driving thru this area is surreal.

The point is, all things manufactured come at a cost. Nickel was singled out in this particular article. The Prius uses a bit more nickel than other vehicles its size, and yes, that does come at a cost (just not as extreme as the article says). But the Prius saves greenhouse gases in the long term, which has global scope. There is less iron being mined in MN or elsewhere (now taconite, actually, the good stuff was mined out decades ago) because of the Prius.

The Prius is not the perfect save-the-world green vehicle. What it is, is a good step for people who need a multi-person vehicle to conduct their lives and fit in with society. A small vehicle with a puny engine and manual everything (windows, steering, locks, transmission, brakes...) would be better for the environment, still get the same mileage at significantly less environmental cost, but people won't buy a vehicle that goes 0-60mph in 20+ seconds, not at this juncture in time. If you really want to get extreme about it, the lowest-impact method of transportation is walking barefoot. So it depends on what you compare the Prius to.

 

good reply, as I was just enquiring about the Ni issue. It's important to remeber that Ni is a toxin where as Iron is a nutrient as long as were counting molecules.

And at this juncture, there's hardly a cleaner car than the Prius.

 

Does anyone actually know any figures? I know people latch on to the NiMH battery, but can anyone actually tell me how much nickel is in a Prius compared to, say, an Avensis?

And how much nickel is recovered if the battery gets recycled?

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(KMO @ Mar 22 2007, 02:21 PM) [snapback]410283[/snapback]</div>

Couldn't find any real stats, only the word from the Toyota website re recycling:

Is there a recycling plan in place for nickel-metal hydride batteries?

Toyota has a comprehensive battery recycling program in place and has been recycling nickel-metal hydride batteries since the RAV4 Electric Vehicle was introduced in 1998. Every part of the battery, from the precious metals to the plastic, plates, steel case and the wiring, is recycled. To ensure that batteries come back to Toyota, each battery has a phone number on it to call for recycling information and dealers are paid a $200 "bounty" for each battery.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(khool-H @ Mar 9 2007, 06:15 PM) [snapback]403059[/snapback]</div>

What a bunch of bunk, in the article that is. Who says the Prius will only last 100,000 mile, it is just broken in then!!
Extend that cost out 3 to 400 thousand and it looks more reasonable.
Also, no mention of the pollution that happens to make the Hummer, only mention of the pollution to make the Prius.

Someone needs to do some more studying on this topic!!