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Green Car of the Year

Discussion in 'Prius, Hybrid, EV and Alt-Fuel News' started by homer315, Apr 5, 2007.

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  1. homer315

    homer315 New Member

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    The Mercedes Benz E320 Diesel won Green Car of the year at the New York auto show:

    http://autos.yahoo.com/articles/new_york_a...-Year-Winners/2


    I find it amusing that the Green Car of the Year gets about half the mpg of the Prius (26/37), consequently produces about twice as much CO2, and can't meet California emission standards.
     
    #1 homer315, Apr 5, 2007
  2. iaowings

    iaowings New Member

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    Ok quick question if it doesn’t meet California emissions standards how come you can buy it and drive it in California. I thought if it didn’t meet the California standard you were not allowed to register it or sell it in California. Correct me if I am wrong. Seriously I don’t know how that works.

    I agree with you on all the other stuff. It doesn’t make since why they would pick that car over a hybrid.

    edit
    MB says it gets 26 and 35 mpg based on the epa.
     
    #2 iaowings, Apr 5, 2007
  3. Squint

    Squint New Member

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    #3 Squint, Apr 6, 2007
  4. homer315

    homer315 New Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(IAO @ Apr 5 2007, 09:09 PM) [snapback]418607[/snapback]</div>
    To quote from Edmunds.com:

    "To meet Bin 8 standards, the 2007 Bluetec exhaust system consists of three specialized catalysts and a particulate filter that handles nearly every last trace of smoke. NOx, a persistent by-product of diesel combustion, is controlled by a NOx storage catalyst and an SCR catalyst. These four devices scrub the exhaust gases squeaky clean, allowing the Bluetec to be sold Bin 8-compliant.

    That turns out to be 45 states. California, Maine, Massachusetts, New York and Vermont leave Bluetec out in the cold for 2007 due to their adoption of even more stringent Bin 5 standards that take effect in the rest of the U.S. in 2009.

    Meeting Bin 5's tighter NOx limits requires the injection of a nontoxic solution commonly known as urea — "AdBlue" in Mercedes-speak — into the exhaust stream. A reservoir containing AdBlue will require periodic refilling, which Mercedes reps say will be performed during the car's normal maintenance. Equipped with AdBlue injection, 50-state-legal Bluetec versions of the E-Class — as well as R-, ML- and GL-Classes — will be available as 2009 models."
     
    #4 homer315, Apr 6, 2007
  5. Bill Merchant

    Bill Merchant absit invidia

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    Urea, huh? That's a real pisser of a car!
     
    #5 Bill Merchant, Apr 6, 2007
  6. iaowings

    iaowings New Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Bill Merchant @ Apr 6 2007, 02:48 AM) [snapback]418663[/snapback]</div>
    :blink: :lol: :lol: :blink: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
     
    #6 iaowings, Apr 6, 2007
  7. donee

    donee New Member

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    Hi All,

    The only E320D I have ever seen was pumping the a black fog of pungent smelling smoke. It apparently had a problem. But it was not that old of a car either. I litterally had to back off 100 yards from it and switch to recirculate to avoid the noxious effects.

    Diesel also requires twice as much petroleum per gallon of refined fuel. I wonder if it runs on bio-diesel? That might help. But the amount of petroleum required is not going to help the US petroleum importation at all. This is probably why Toyota, being in the land of 100 % imported petroleum went with the atkinson/hybrid technology. A little better mileage than the diesel concepts, but at half the petroleum consumption (importation).

    Also, this looks like a rigged competition, since they limited it to vehicles that were redesigned for 2006. The Prius of course is 2 years ahead of anything in the competition as far as redesign, and many years ahead in terms of real performance. This is a case of the Prius being too far ahead of the competition.
     
    #7 donee, Apr 6, 2007
  8. tripp

    tripp Which it's a 'ybrid, ain't it?

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(donee @ Apr 6 2007, 06:48 AM) [snapback]418722[/snapback]</div>
    Well, to be fair, the Prius has already won. Ditto the HCH.

    So it really takes twice as much oil? I knew that diesel has 13% more energy/volume but I didn't know that it took that much more oil to make. So diesel's really use considerably more fuel than gasoline cars. What's the point then?
     
    #8 tripp, Apr 6, 2007
  9. Squint

    Squint New Member

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    http://www.ucsusa.org/clean_vehicles/fuel_...el-dilemma.html

    There's much more available there, including the full report in PDF format.

    If you compare the Lexus GS 450h and the E320, the Lexus does 0-60 mph in 5.2 secs vs 6.6 secs and has 340 hp vs 208 hp. The E320 has higher mpg but that has to be adjusted downwards. And it's probably safe to say the Lexus will be a lot more reliable.

    These are numbers I compiled a few weeks ago comparing diesels and hybrids:

    http://www.fueleconomy.gov/

    2006 Jetta TDI

    2008 fuel economy (city, highway, combined) 30, 38, 33

    greenhouse emissions 5.6 tons/yr
    air pollution score 1/10

    Cost to Drive 25 Miles $1.77
    Fuel to Drive 25 Miles 0.66 gal
    Cost of a Fill-up $35.10
    Miles on a Tank 496 miles
    Tank Size 14.5 gal
    Annual Fuel Cost* $1061

    Size Class Compact Cars
    Engine Size (liters) 1.9
    Passenger Volume 91 ft3 (4D)
    Luggage Volume 16 ft3 (4D)

    0-60 mph 11.6 s

    ------------------------------------------------------------
    2006 Prius

    2008 fuel economy (city, highway, combined) 48, 45, 46

    greenhouse emissions 3.4 tons/yr
    air pollution score 8/10

    Cost to Drive 25 Miles $1.16
    Fuel to Drive 25 Miles 0.45 gal
    Cost of a Fill-up $27.42
    Miles on a Tank 589 miles
    Tank Size 11.9 gal
    Annual Fuel Cost* $699

    Size Class Midsize Cars
    Engine Size (liters) 1.5
    Cylinders 4
    Passenger Volume 96 ft3 (HB)
    Luggage Volume 16 ft3 (HB)

    0-60 mph 10.1 s

    ------------------------------------------------------------
    2006 Golf TDI

    2008 fuel economy (city, highway, combined) 28, 40, 32

    greenhouse emissions 5.7 tons/yr
    air pollution score 1/10

    Cost to Drive 25 Miles $1.82
    Fuel to Drive 25 Miles 0.68 gal
    Cost of a Fill-up $35.10
    Miles on a Tank 483 miles
    Tank Size 14.5 gal
    Annual Fuel Cost* $1089

    Size Class Compact Cars
    Engine Size (liters) 1.9
    Passenger Volume 88 ft3 (HB)
    Luggage Volume 18 ft3 (HB)

    0-60 mph 12.0 s

    ------------------------------------------------------------
    2007 Camry hybrid

    2008 fuel economy (city, highway, combined) 33, 34, 34

    Cost to Drive 25 Miles $1.64
    Fuel to Drive 25 Miles 0.64 gal
    Cost of a Fill-up $39.63
    Miles on a Tank 604 miles
    Tank Size 17.2 gal
    Annual Fuel Cost* $983

    greenhouse emissions 4.8 tons/yr
    air pollution score 8/10

    Size Class Midsize Cars
    Engine Size (liters) 2.4
    Cylinders 4
    Passenger Volume 101 ft3 (4D)
    Luggage Volume 11 ft3 (4D)

    0-60 mph 8.6 s
     
    #9 Squint, Apr 6, 2007
  10. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
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    Err.. the competition isn't rigged. That's how COTY awards are dished out. The car has to be new for that particular year (i.e. a brand new model or a total revamp of an existing model)
     
    #10 Tideland Prius, Apr 6, 2007
  11. hyo silver

    hyo silver Awaaaaay

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    Green car? Sounds like doublespeak to me. Oxymoronic, even.
     
    #11 hyo silver, Apr 6, 2007
  12. Squint

    Squint New Member

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    #12 Squint, Apr 6, 2007
  13. tripp

    tripp Which it's a 'ybrid, ain't it?

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    Good stuff, Squint. Thanks.
     
    #13 tripp, Apr 6, 2007
  14. donee

    donee New Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Tideland Prius @ Apr 6 2007, 02:28 PM) [snapback]418876[/snapback]</div>
    I guess. But it seems like its not the best car that year, in the category. Maybe a more appropriate name would be Redesigned Car of The Year.
     
    #14 donee, Apr 6, 2007
  15. Ari

    Ari New Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(donee @ Apr 6 2007, 07:48 AM) [snapback]418722[/snapback]</div>
    I think you have your facts wrong about diesel - it in fact costs less to produce than regular gas. Look here:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diesel
     
    #15 Ari, Apr 6, 2007
  16. tripp

    tripp Which it's a 'ybrid, ain't it?

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    accord to Squint's links it takes 25% more oil to produce the same amount of diesel as gasoline. The diesel fuel does have 15% more energy per volume, however.
     
    #16 tripp, Apr 6, 2007
  17. seftonm

    seftonm Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Ari @ Apr 6 2007, 03:03 PM) [snapback]419018[/snapback]</div>
    He may be referring to the fact that that a barrel of crude oil yields about twice as much gasoline as diesel fuel. I have to question how much of that is because of demand and how much is due to the crude's ability to yield certain amounts. Diesel fuel requires less refining than gasoline so it is true that less energy is consumed and less emissions are produced in the production of diesel.
     
    #17 seftonm, Apr 6, 2007
  18. hill

    hill High Fiber Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Ari @ Apr 6 2007, 05:03 PM) [snapback]419018[/snapback]</div>
    Yea, that's what I'd always heard ... some of the old refinary geezers that are still around tell of the early days, when diesel was refined ... gas was kind of a by-product that was simply burned off. What a waste . . . but isn't that typical.
     
    #18 hill, Apr 7, 2007
  19. cwerdna

    cwerdna Senior Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Ari @ Apr 6 2007, 02:03 PM) [snapback]419018[/snapback]</div>
    Per http://www.api.org/classroom/tools/upload/oilfacts_rgb.pdf, a barrel of crude yields many products, including 19.4 gallons of gasoline and 10.5 gallons of distillate fuel oil which includes diesel.
     
    #19 cwerdna, Apr 7, 2007
  20. snowdog650

    snowdog650 Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(donee @ Apr 6 2007, 11:05 AM) [snapback]418909[/snapback]</div>
    Perhaps ... but I think M-B is deserving of the award, simply because they were the first to engineer a diesel dirvetrain that is capable of achieving 50-state compliance (with proper fuel).

    It just gives one more option to those of us in the 5 CA emissions states.

    It has opened the door for other manufacturers to follow suit.

    Now, how about a Bluetec hybrid?

    Muah ha ha ha ha ... <_<
     
    #20 snowdog650, Apr 9, 2007
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