Battery maker shows off car capable of 125-plus mpg

Awesome, nice to see more and more of these Prius retrofits popping up. This Lithium IRON battery is the first I have noticed.

I wonder if these retrofits getting 100+ mpg would be more desireable than the next gen Prius that goes about 10 miles EV but then gets only about 65 mpg.

 

Nice,

can't find mention of estimated price or availability date?

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(zenMachine @ May 25 2007, 08:47 AM) [snapback]449829[/snapback]</div>

Well. At least their web site has an email address and phone number under "Where to Buy".

I'm definitely going to contact them.

Dave M.

P.S. I just dropped an email, and also called. The person who deals with that is out until Tuesday. Hopefully I'll get a call back.
Maybe if there's enough interest here, and there's no other way to make a purchase we could arrange a group purchase through PC.
It would be a lot more expensive than items like the BT Tech plate though.

 

The real question is what kind of MPG would hypermilers get? Would they easily break 200MPG, or possibly 300MPG?

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Alexstarfire @ May 25 2007, 03:48 PM) [snapback]450096[/snapback]</div>

That would almost entirely depend on how far they went between recharges.

Dave M.

 

My wife and I were initially interested in buying a Prius when we saw the documentary film Who Killed the Electric Car?

In the film there is a lot of interviewing with the battery/power component designers of GM's EV1. Basically the technology lies in the battery life and storage within the vehicle. At the end of the film they discuss how even though the EV1 may rest in peace, the battery designers started their own company.

That company's main business is retro-fitting vehicles to become plug-in hybrids. Supposedly they are the preeminent plug-in retrofit company. (perhaps the one in the article even, I forgot the company's name from the film)

Our plan was to buy a used Prius and within a year or so, drive it to L.A. where this company is and have them turn our gas electric hybrid into a gas/electric/plug-in/bitchin' hybrid!

We can't wait!

 

Plug-in hybrids have a lot of promise. There is the warranty issue, though, if you get an after-market retro-fit. My hope would be that companies like this, that demonstrate what's possible, will push Toyota into building PHEVs from the ground up.

However, 125 mpg does not impress me. My Xebra goes 50 miles on a dollar's worth of electrons. A car that got 50 miles on a dollar's worth of gas, at $3/gal gas, would be getting 150 miles per gallon. When gas reaches $5/gal, it would be like getting 250 mpg. And in a decade, when gas is $10/gal it would be like getting 500 mpg.

Also please note that, by convention, those mpg figures for PHEVs generally pretend that the electricity is free. The CalCars Prius, if driven 60 miles, uses half gas and half electricity. That's cheaper than all gas at today's prices, but it's a bit dishonest to state the mpg figure without including the miles per KWH figure. And the farther you drive a PHEV, the lower is the proportion of electricity. But a converted Prius only gets half its power from electricity at best, unless you drive very slowly and accelerate more gently than even my little Xebra can.

 

What gives you the confidence to state this as though it were fact ?
Is driving the speed limit in the city included in your "drive very slowly" statement ?
Do you know the steady state power requirements of level driving without wind at 55 mph in the Prius ?

Really, there is enough FUD being thrown about without adding to it.

Addendum, from Calcars --
5: What is the driving experience like with an EDrive equipped Prius?
After the nightly re-charge, the vehicle can be driven in EV mode until the vehicle speed exceeds 34mph. At this point the engine may start in order to warm up the emission control system. After the emission system is warmed up, the Prius will use the gasoline engine whenever higher speeds or power levels are needed, but will always (for the first 50 or so miles) inject electricity to reduce gasoline consumption. It is possible to drive in EV mode at speeds over 34mph and up to 55mph if the power requirements are low enough. The dashboard mounted display will always tell you if you are using gasoline and if not, how far you can press the accelerator without turning the gasoline engine on. In low speed city driving and 55mph freeway driving it is possible to average over 200mpg. More aggressive driving over 65mph will lower the efficiency to 100mpg or less. For example, 75mph freeway driving could result in less than 80mpg. During the 50 mile boost period, the Prius battery display will show 8 green bars (ie full). After the boost mode, the display (and vehicle performance) will be identical to a standard Prius.

6: Why the big difference between 55mph and 75mph?
Because of the configuration of the Prius, electric use is limited to 21kW and often less. At speeds over 34mph, the electrical contribution is more or less constant. You may find at 55mph that 1/4 of the power is coming from gasoline and 3/4 from electricity, but at 75mph the contribution may be 2/3rd gas and 1/3rd electric. Even though the electric contribution is the same in both cases, the gasoline contribution (and thus mpg) can be dramatically different.

7: Can I really get over 200mpg with EDrive on my Prius?
Yes, but it requires low speeds (55mph freeway) and mild acceleration in city driving. Most Prius EDrive users will likely get closer to 100mpg.

 

Let's not forget that vehicles of the Xebra's ilk are not practicle for a huge segment of the population. It's size, capacity, and top speed limitations make it pretty impractical in many driving situations, especially in the typcial American metro area. A Prius PHEV (which is not an optimal PHEV design by any means) would be far more useful to me than spending an equivalent amount of money on a 3 wheeled electric motor cycle.

 

Back to the subject of batteries...

Altairnano just demonstrated it's claim of quick charge recently in front of many witnesses. over 30kWh sucked up by the batteries in just over five minutes. That, folks, is ~ 150 miles of range after a five minute charge. I'm not saying it is practical or reasonable to do on a regular basis, but it exists, and it is real (and it is WAY easier and cheaper than fueling any FCV). The batteries barely got warm, and because of their composition, than cannot combust anyway.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(darelldd @ May 26 2007, 10:44 PM) [snapback]450701[/snapback]</div>

Now, if we can just find out how expensive they are, and when they'll be available (if ever) for DIYers.

Dave M.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(darelldd @ May 27 2007, 01:44 AM) [snapback]450701[/snapback]</div>

Yup, and independent tests by Aerovironment are also verifying the amazing cycle life claims of Altair batteries using a 10 minute charge protocol. Goodbye hydrogen!

 

Isn't there a shelf-life issue with Li-ion chemistry batteries that's independent of the charge cycle? Have there been any statements addressing that issue? The advancements in battery technology have been remarkable and they seem to continue unabated. Now we just need some products (besides power tool power packs)! It seems that simply scaling production up would go a long way towards driving down costs.

 

Here is another link:

Link

And another one:

Another Link

Ok, so I am not very imaginative today about my links.

 

Prices for the PHEV plug-in option are about 12K after they get up to speed. Most are not ready to release them yet. Here are some companies and info

hymotion 9,500 , out of Canada, adds lithum pack parallel to NiMH

EnergyCS, 12K, removes NiMH adds Valance lithium battery pack

hybrids-plus 12K , removes NiMH adds A123 lithium pack. (will convert now for 35K) if you can't wait.

A few key ideas here.
-buy stock in the lithium battery companies ALTI, ATHU, VLNC
-wait till 08 when Toyota puts lithium in Prius, same cost 90 mpg
-ask your Toyota dealer for PHEV to let them know we would like that option
note (Toyota is making their own lithium battery)
-Buy a prius now if you don't already own one so you can convert when available at good cost.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(tripp @ May 29 2007, 09:44 AM) [snapback]451488[/snapback]</div>

The Altairnano packs have at least partially solved the calendar life thing as well. Though price is still the great unknown, these things are ripe to change everything we thought we knew about batteries!

And one thing I meant to mention earlier in respect to the subject article of this thread....

All the excitment here is in a car that gets 125mpg of gasoline (with the addition off off-board electrons). And here I am driving a car that was developed 14 years ago, with 14-year-old battery chemistry - that will drive 125 miles on ZERO gasoline! Just how far have we really come when we're still talking about gas mileage today?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(clett @ May 28 2007, 07:50 AM) [snapback]450959[/snapback]</div>

The only thing that the H2 crowd going for them (or what they claimed anyway) was range and recharge time. Forget the fact that there has never been a FCV with greater range than an equivalent battery car... now it has been proven that a battery car can also be refueled in the same amount of time with far less expensive fuel and far less expensive infrastructure.

The game was already over before it began, but now you can stick a fork in it.