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EV question - distance

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Audio and Electronics' started by Varko, Oct 21, 2004.

  1. Varko

    Varko Member

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    I am trying to figure out if the EV upgrade is right for me.

    I have a short trip every morning (and afternoon) to take (pick up) my daughter to (from) school. It is just less than one mile - one way (too long for a 5-year-old to walk, but too close for the bus), and somewhat uphill. I try to combine this trip with other errands, but it is not always possible. This trip is killing my mileage (still on my first tank of gas). Would EV modification be useful here? I have seen discussions of using it to move across parking lots, is this trip to long? Would the uphill be too much strain? Any insight would be helpful and is appreciated - thanks.
     
  2. V8Cobrakid

    V8Cobrakid Green Handyman

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    It all depends on the speed you wish to go and how much acceleration power you need. If you wanted to, you could use Ev all the way up the hill. Or.. at least a lot of the way. Most likely the gas engine will kick in due to a strain. You could use the gas engine and downhill momentum to get better mpg when going back down the hill.

    BTW.. congrats on being a new prius owner. What's your current mpg?
     
  3. Varko

    Varko Member

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    The drive is through a residential area - speed 20-25 mph and three [edit: no, four] stop signs. I do use downhill momentum in areas on the way home, but the stop signs break it up. Plus there are many others on the road in a hurry to get home so I can't just coast (in stretches, the road is not steep enough to go very fast without added power).

    Current mpg, about 45, but it steadily drops when I don't do much other driving.
     
  4. efusco

    efusco Moderator Emeritus
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    No, it won't really help for that trip...just a bit too long to make decent use of, esp. the round trip part. You might make it once in a while, but the times you don't will be worse for everything (economy, emissions, etc.) than just running normally.
     
  5. Varko

    Varko Member

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    That is a shame. I was hoping that the EV modification would help with this pesky little trip. The ICE never really gets a chance to warm up even on the roundtrip.

    Oh well, I am still getting way better mileage than my last car. I probably just won't see any 50 mpg tanks during the school year.

    Thanks again.
     
  6. DaveinOlyWA

    DaveinOlyWA 3rd Time was Solariffic!!

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    i am going through 5 weeks of multiple short trips and there is nothing you can really do to alleviate the problems really.

    right now my tank mileage is 49.1 mpg from 51.1 mpg monday morning. but better than the 35 mpg from Friday night.
     
  7. DanMan32

    DanMan32 Senior Member

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    I'm not sure I would agree, but I am speculating.
    If you do make it one way or better yet round trip, delaying the warm-up inefficiency for the next trip will certainly help, even if the ICE would be working to recharge the battery along with warming up, and propelling the car.
    Give it a try. The flasher method costs nothing but time and a wire, using your own button about 3 bucks, and the costal mod $45.
    Myself, I did the button approach.
     
  8. efusco

    efusco Moderator Emeritus
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    I agree that it's probably worth a try...it's just that that SOC drops DARN fast at any speed over about 20mph and making the full round trip, consistantly, without the ICE kicking in at teh end and not making the full warm-up, I suspect, will be a recurring problem...but I haven't seen the route, the button is lots of fun, and it's worth a try.
     
  9. Varko

    Varko Member

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    Thanks for the input. I am reviewing Evan's article and others to determine how I want to try this. From the description on usage in Evan's KB article it looks like it might not work for the leg up hill (the steepest part is at the beginning), but may work for the leg home (down hill). I will keep you posted. Thanks again-
     
  10. DaveinOlyWA

    DaveinOlyWA 3rd Time was Solariffic!!

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    Val:

    you know it might be worth a try. aslo as far a car mods go, it s not really that much money.

    i dont have the EV switch but i seem to be able to go up to 3 miles at times. it all depends on what the SOC is when you park the car.

    but you say that the steepest part is at the beginning of the trip which means that a downhill part happens just before you get home. if you get a good charge from that, then that could be enough to get you to the school and back. remember, hills can help a lot.

    but speed would be crucial.
     
  11. bruceha_2000

    bruceha_2000 Senior Member

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    Like you, I am thinking along the same lines - at what points in my various trips would being able to force EV be helpful.
    For instance, my trip to the rink is mostly gentle downhill, both ways :) Well OK, only HALF of both ways, The mid point is the bottom of the topography. About 7 miles, 95% posted at 30 mph, the rest at 25. By the time I've gone through the midpoint and made some distance back up, the car is warmed up and the SOC is high, all blue or even 1 green, I can sometimes do the last 2 miles almost entirely on electric if the traffic lights are kindly and other motorist are sparse. It seems that frequently I can get it into stealth but if the ICE kicks in, I can't get back into stealth. I wonder if being able to accelerate a little harder with the EV switch, I could do the whole 2 miles or more, even with lights, stop signs and some other motorists.
     
  12. DaveinOlyWA

    DaveinOlyWA 3rd Time was Solariffic!!

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    Bruce:

    for you, i would not recommend EV at all. you are going too far.

    I would use it only for very short distances (about a mile at the most) at speeds of 35 or less.

    there have been people on this forum that have run out of gas and have driven in a forced EV mode and most say that they only chanced going 1-4 miles or so before they were down to 1-2 bars.
     
  13. bruceha_2000

    bruceha_2000 Senior Member

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    Dave,
    I guess I wasn't clear. I know I couldn't get all the way there in EV. But I think I could stay in EV with the switch the last 2 miles each way. The road follows the lake shore. There is a brook just south of my house so I have to climb some going north, then it levels out, then drops again going into Burlington at the waterfront. Another a climb continuing north, then there is a river coming out just north of the rink so the road is dropping again. There are, of course, some more minor ups and downs along the way.

    At current temps, the car is warmed up by the time I have climbed out of the Burlington low point either direction. This may not be true in Dec, Jan and Feb. :) There are places where I expect it to go electric only but it kicks the engine on even if I was recently in EV. As it is, even when I do EV as much as I can, I park the car with no more than 1 blue bar missing and sometimes even have 1 green bar. Since I have to climb at the beginning of either direction, a lower initial SOC isn't going to hurt me. The engine will be running for warm-up the next 10 minutes anyway.
     
  14. bruceha_2000

    bruceha_2000 Senior Member

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    As I would expect from postings here. :) I chanced across an article on hybrids on netscape.com. The author said you could drive 10 to 20 miles on electric if you ran out of gas. I sent in a correction, saying 1-2 would be more reasonable unless it were all down hill plus a couple of other points. He said "good points, thanks". The article popped up again and figured he had corrected it. Nope. :-(

    I also saw a Car and Driver thing in the Sunday paper. Mostly muscle cars. They said a Ford Escape Hybrid would go to 25 MPH on electric, then the gas engine would kick in. Not exactly an accurate representation.

    I hope no one buys the vehicles and gets POed because of this sort of mis-information.
     
  15. DaveinOlyWA

    DaveinOlyWA 3rd Time was Solariffic!!

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    im pretty sure i read that someone ran out of gas and was on a slight downhill slope and that he still could only go a very limited distance.

    apparently, gas is needed for other things besides charging the battery.
     
  16. Varko

    Varko Member

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    Just an update: I will wait until my dad visits over Thanksgiving to do the EV mod. He is very knowledgable about electronics and I could use his help. I have sent him the link to Evan's article so he can read up on it and be prepared when he gets here. I will probably use the headlight flasher modification until I decide if EV mode is useful for me. Any drawbacks or issues with using this method versus a dedicated button?
     
  17. daniel

    daniel Cat Lovers Against the Bomb

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    Varko: I'd have commented earlier, but I was on vacation.

    You will not be able to make it all the way in EV mode, due to the stops. Those are a killer on EV distance. However, the EV mod can still be useful: Allow the ICE to run for the uphill leg, which should leave you with a nearly full battery. Then use EV for the downhill leg and if the downhill is steep enough, you may make it. That will leave your battery nearly at minimum, so that next trip, during the obligatory warm-up phase, there is battery head room to absorb the excess energy.

    I do not have data, but it is my opinion that this strategy helps with mileage.

    And in any case, the EV mod is fun to have. I have the Costal Tech switch on the CC stalk, which I like because it does not affect the functioning of the headlight flasher. Evan's mod with an actual button is the most elegant, but more complicated to install.
     
  18. Varko

    Varko Member

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    Daniel, thanks for the input.
     
  19. bicyclebabe

    bicyclebabe Junior Member

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    I think you will be surprised at how far a 5 year old can walk. Have you figured out how far it is Frontierland to Tomorrowland at Disney Word?

    It could be a very special time for both of you every day. Good planning with fun songs, a treat to look forward to at the end of the walk, kicking a soccer ball all the way to school, word games, stepping in puddles when it's raining, waving to a neighbor on the porch... I remember the days when I skipped a rope all the way to school.

    And the health benefit of walking... 4 miles a day for you and 2 for her. You can cancel your health club membership.
    You will be teaching your child how to be fit for life.

    Or just cut your gas use in half by walking in the afternoon and driving in the morning.
     
  20. DaveinOlyWA

    DaveinOlyWA 3rd Time was Solariffic!!

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    bicyclebabe:

    where you from? around here, walking isnt an option for many. the weather is not predictable enough. i doubt that you or anyone else would want to walk in the rain along streets that for the most part, are not walker-friendly.