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Problem with A/C

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Care, Maintenance and Troubleshooting' started by RelicDragon, Jun 6, 2007.

  1. RelicDragon

    RelicDragon New Member

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    Hello!

    First of all, sorry for my bad english - I'm from Russia and looks like, I'm one of a few lucky guys, who owns Prius here. It's not selling here officially, so the total number of priuses (nhw-20 models) is about twenty in whole country. And it's clear that we have no specialized services here :(
    So, my big problem is Air Conditioner. It's just can't cool air. And no mechanic, serviceman or dealer can't understand problem (most of them simply never seen Priuses before). They just don't know what to do and they even have no service/repair manuals. They can repair conditioner on Classic Priuses (nhw-10,11), because the conditioners are driven by ice in that cars. But in nhw-20, conditioner is electric, if I'm right.
    So I've started with diagnosing leaks and refilling air-conditiong system. It didn't help. There is a noise, when A/C is running, so the problem is not in electricity and A/C is alive. There are no oil leaks too. The pressure on input is 4 atmospheres (59 psi) and on output is 6 atm. (88 psi). It seems, that it's a small difference - I've heard, that it must be much bigger... Is it so?
    I've tried to disconnect aux-battery to reset computers, but it not helped too.
    So where the problem could be? I'm tired of this :((
    Probably someone have a good repair manual, focused on a/c system?

    Thank you, -Ilya.
     
    #1 RelicDragon, Jun 6, 2007
  2. JimboK

    JimboK One owner, low mileage

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    Hello, Ilya, and welcome to PriusChat. I can't help you with your problem -- you're already over my head mechanically with what you've tried -- but I did want to welcome you. I'm not sure I've seen a Russian on PriusChat before. And your English actually is quite good and understandable.

    I do know that Toyota offers the service manuals for downloading for a price, $10 a day I believe. From what I gather, it's a very tedious and time-consuming process to download them, but the fact you need only what's necessary for the AC may reduce the time and trouble. I'll leave it to those who've actually done that for more guidance.

    Good luck!
     
    #2 JimboK, Jun 6, 2007
  3. Pinto Girl

    Pinto Girl New Member

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    Yes, I was thinking of that website too.

    I don't know what else to say, except for, 'best of luck.'

    I'm not really afraid of most cars, mechanically, but the Prius is just different enough to worry me a bit. I'd say get as much technical info as possible before tearing into the car in search of the problem.

    I don't know about the input/output pressures, either. With regular A/C, I believe the pressure differential is lots greater, though...no clue about our Prii, however. You might be onto something; your car has, what, a 20-25% differential? That really isn't very much.

    So, if you put a temperature probe down one of the vents and the A/C is on high (temperature control is set to LO and the A/C is engaged), what temperature, exactly, is the air coming out? There is usually a figure for about how cold the air should be. How far away from this is your car?

    Excess moisture in the system might also be a problem (don't know if you evacuated it before refilling or not)...do you think this might be it? Do you see any pipes under the hood which are iced up when the A/C is running? Especially if they're iced up for only part of the run, which might indicate blockage...

    Just a guess, though.
     
    #3 Pinto Girl, Jun 6, 2007
  4. RelicDragon

    RelicDragon New Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(JimboK @ Jun 6 2007, 11:12 AM) [snapback]456582[/snapback]</div>
    Thank you, thank you, thank you =))

    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(JimboK @ Jun 6 2007, 11:12 AM) [snapback]456582[/snapback]</div>
    What this price means? I need to pay $10 per day to use the manual or they will allow me to download any type of documents from their server for this money for the duration of a day???


    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Pinto Girl @ Jun 6 2007, 03:58 PM) [snapback]456821[/snapback]</div>
    Yes, I think that's it's not very much too...


    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Pinto Girl @ Jun 6 2007, 03:58 PM) [snapback]456821[/snapback]</div>
    My car is far-far away from this figure, I think. Well I never saw this figure, but it's clear, that I'm far from it.
    Temperature on the vents, when climate is set to Max Cold is about 22celsius (71.6F)

    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Pinto Girl @ Jun 6 2007, 03:58 PM) [snapback]456821[/snapback]</div>
    No, moisture was evacuated (most of it, probably)... and no iced pipes when A/C is running...

    I though today, that there are might be some process of engaging A/C after refilling it??? For example, CAN-based or fuse-based switch...?????
     
    #4 RelicDragon, Jun 7, 2007
  5. galaxee

    galaxee mostly benevolent

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    the low pressure side (the big line) is just a little low. the high pressure side (small line) is way too low. if the system has a proper charge in it (~1 lb pressure, sorry, don't know metric) it sounds like the compressor is malfunctioning.
     
    #5 galaxee, Jun 9, 2007
  6. JimN

    JimN Let the games begin!

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    Ilya, welcome to the site. Your English is good and you are more polite than some of the regular participants. Good luck fixing your car.
     
    #6 JimN, Jun 10, 2007
  7. RelicDragon

    RelicDragon New Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(galaxee @ Jun 9 2007, 05:26 PM) [snapback]458845[/snapback]</div>
    Yes, sad to say this, but looks like, the problem is really in compressor :( It cost much, so I think that this summer I will ride without a cold air in cabin :(


    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(JimN @ Jun 10 2007, 08:12 PM) [snapback]459361[/snapback]</div>
    Thank you! I'm glad to hear it =))) Especially words about my English, because I couldn't remember translation for a word 'polite' and had to look up it in a dictionary. So it's seems, that there is still a long way to study English really good =))
     
    #7 RelicDragon, Jun 14, 2007
  8. RelicDragon

    RelicDragon New Member

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    Well, finally, I've uninstalled a/c comrpessor and gave it to a well-known technician - so in a week or two, the problem must be solved.
    But right before I've uninstalled a/c, the car was overheated on the highway and after cooling and testing car, I've understood that my water pump is not running... And it seems that it is not running for a long time. This time I drove on the highway faster, then my normal driving, so the car was overheated. And before that I normally drove it slower (60mph +/- 10).
    So I though - for A/C to work correctly, we must have a working cooling system (two radiators). And if my pump was broken, then probably, A/C can't cool enough???
    What do you think about it??
     
    #8 RelicDragon, Jul 3, 2007
  9. jayman

    jayman Senior Member

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    The Prius has a *very* complicated cooling loop for the motor and for inverter. I'm under the impression that EU Prius cars do not have the coolant storage thermos, while North American Prius cars do have that complicated thermos.

    It's absolutely essential that no air is in either cooling loop. The bleeding procedure is complicated and if you are having problems with one of the electric cooling pumps, you could ruin either the inverter or the engine.

    I would only purchase and drive a vehicle that had reasonable service and support. If I lived in South America, I would drive whatever popular vehicle that was easy to service, perhaps an ethanol car or a small turbodiesel. If I lived in Africa, I would probably drive a small Toyota ute with a diesel.

    Or if I lived in Russia, I would probably drive one of those Lada cars based on the Fiat. Or the Niva four wheel drive. Quite a few Lada cars and Niva four wheel drives were sold in Canada in the 1980's, and a few are still chugging along. They're remarkably easy to work on.
     
    #9 jayman, Jul 3, 2007
  10. bhaynnes

    bhaynnes Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(RelicDragon @ Jun 6 2007, 08:15 AM) [snapback]456544[/snapback]</div>
    I hope someone can give you the correct pages from the service manual. Your English is great. Welcome to prius chat.
     
    #10 bhaynnes, Jul 3, 2007
  11. bulek

    bulek Junior Member

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    Privet Ilya,

    Just in case you fail with repair attempt you may consider two other options. If your Prius is EU version it can still be under warranty. Just take some nice vacation in Poland and go to any Toyota service in major city (Gdansk, Warsaw would be the most suitable for you I think). Latvia or Lithuenia is even closer. Otherwise you can still try to get spare parts from crashed Priuses from Germany. It seems there are quite a lot of them there.

    - Piotr
     
    #11 bulek, Jul 3, 2007
  12. galaxee

    galaxee mostly benevolent

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    which water pump are you referring to? prius has three where you are.

    yes, if the car is overheated the a/c will shut off to remove a source of heat. but those pressures are still diagnostic of a bad compressor.
     
    #12 galaxee, Jul 4, 2007
  13. RelicDragon

    RelicDragon New Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(jayman @ Jul 3 2007, 12:08 PM) [snapback]472337[/snapback]</div>
    Oh no, thank you very much, but if you've ever drive a lada, then you wouldn't do it again. Well you will do it only if the lada will be a gift from the friend (but he must be an enemy if he give you this car). After five years driving ladas and one minute driving honda civic'89, my whole life and my thoughts changed =))))
    Anyway it's fun to deal with prius problems. I hope, they all will be solved soon.

    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(bhaynnes @ Jul 3 2007, 12:43 PM) [snapback]472355[/snapback]</div>
    Thank you!

    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(bulek @ Jul 3 2007, 03:57 PM) [snapback]472487[/snapback]</div>
    Thank you, Piotr for advise. My prius is japanese version, so it's not under warranty, I think ;) I also though about spare parts, and it's a good deal, so if technician man will fail with the repair of my a/c compressor, then I will take a loof for spares...

    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(galaxee @ Jul 3 2007, 11:02 PM) [snapback]472750[/snapback]</div>
    The water pump, which is situated close to the right head-light. It is connected to the main radiator with short tube... I think, it's an engine water pump...
    Bad compressor.... that's bad =)) still no news about the repair, but it's clear for me now, that it's really broken.

    Thank you.
    - Ilia.
     
    #13 RelicDragon, Jul 5, 2007
  14. diamondlarry

    diamondlarry EPA MPG #'s killer

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(RelicDragon @ Jun 7 2007, 05:01 AM) [snapback]457212[/snapback]</div>
    It is my understanding that the $10 fee allows you access to the server for a day and you are allowed to download as much as you can in that 1 day period. Good luck and you are doing fine with the English.
     
    #14 diamondlarry, Jul 5, 2007
  15. galaxee

    galaxee mostly benevolent

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(RelicDragon @ Jul 5 2007, 03:26 AM) [snapback]473368[/snapback]</div>
    hi again Ilia,

    by right headlight, you mean on your right when you are looking under the hood, correct? i guess on a japanese prius that would be the passenger side.

    that should be the engine water pump. fortunately, that's really easy to replace. the cost for a new part here is a couple hundred dollars. much cheaper than a new a/c compressor!
     
    #15 galaxee, Jul 6, 2007
  16. jayman

    jayman Senior Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(RelicDragon @ Jul 5 2007, 02:26 AM) [snapback]473368[/snapback]</div>
    Around 10 years ago I did have a chance to drive an early 1980's vintage Lada car owned by a farmer near Niverville, Manitoba. They appear to be based on an earlier Fiat design. It had a four cylinder motor and a four speed transmission. The car was somewhat primative compared to other 1980's Canadian cars, but at 10 years old it was still running strong. Though it did have surprisingly heavy rust in the rear wheel arch and trunk area

    The same farmer also owned a Niva, again very primative compared to similar 1980's Canadian small SUV's. He was going to purchase a Toyota Landcruiser diesel, the last year the diesel motor was sold in Canada, but it was priced far too high. The Niva worked well enough then it was written off when somebody ran a stop sign and crushed his rear quarter.

    Again, the old saying "when in Rome ..." applies to cars. I would only purchase a car that was popular in the country I lived in, was fairly reliable, and had good support if a breakdown happened. Here in Canada, for example, I would not have a Prius in a remote area far removed from the nearest hybrid-certified Toyota dealer
     
    #16 jayman, Jul 8, 2007
  17. RelicDragon

    RelicDragon New Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(galaxee @ Jul 5 2007, 11:25 PM) [snapback]473830[/snapback]</div>
    Yes, that's it!
    Water pump will be delivered in two weeks... Right now I'm with a broken water pump. But I'm driving not too fast, so the gasoline engine sometimes starts-up to warm-up... There's around 20Celsius (68F) outside. And it's strange... probably there's no need in water pump at all???? (if driving below-130kmh/80mph).

    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(jayman @ Jul 8 2007, 07:21 PM) [snapback]475229[/snapback]</div>
    Yes, the first Lada Classic 2101 is a copy of Fiat-124 - model of 1965. It was started in Russia in 1970. But later - all models were just a revision of an old Fiat. Even an engine was the same, but with bigger combustion chambers (do not know, how to say it right, sorry). And the rust is a lada's best friend. A week and a small scratch will become an annoying rusty line.

    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(jayman @ Jul 8 2007, 07:21 PM) [snapback]475229[/snapback]</div>
    I'm a programmer and I love new technologies - so the used prius is my choice =))) Prius because ... because it's a Prius =))) And used prius, because it is much cheaper to pass customs. For new cars and cars, which are less, than 3 years old, we must pay 48% of the cars' cost to the customs... And it's sad. So, for example, the new Prius will cost here around 40-50 thousand dollars.
     
    #17 RelicDragon, Jul 10, 2007
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