HELP! Just Bought a 2005 and having a MAJOR problem

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(galaxee @ Jul 17 2007, 02:34 PM) [snapback]480371[/snapback]</div>

Good point, and the more I think about it, the more I think I'm full of baloney and my prior posts should be ignored. I think I'm siding with ilwckb252 -- do a system restart (disconnect and reconnect 12v battery) before you do anything else.

I mean, on careful re-reading, this thread says that two pieces of electrical hardware failed immediately after a minor software modification. Hmmm. That's a heck of a coincidence. Costs you nothing to reboot -- not just restore put the beep back in, but disconnect and reconnect the 12v battery.

Of course, the brake light switch could have been broken for some time. QUestion to OP: does your state require a safety inspection when car ownership is transferred? (I mean, do you know your brake lights were working a month ago?) Second question: do your brake lights come on when you press the brake pedal? If so, the brake light switch is OK. If not, then not

A reboot is free. The 12v battery is behind a panel in the passenger side rear of the luggage compartment. And it'll take 10 second to check the brake light switch. So, if no brake lights, then you have to put that switch in anyway, whether or not its related to the shifting issue. No waste there. Then reassess.

 

My recollection about the brake light switch was that disconnecting the wiring will be the hard part. It's a tight work area so it may take some effort to get your fingers in there and release the clip that secures the connector in place. As I said in that write-up, the stubby box-end wrench is absolutely mandatory in order to get the lock nut free. Regular length wrenches don't come close to fitting.

But overall, not hard. It just takes patience and is best done by whoever has the smallest hands.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(galaxee @ Jul 17 2007, 02:34 PM) [snapback]480371[/snapback]</div>

Sorry for the stream of consciousness, but my wife just got back with the Prius and I tested a few things.

As far as I can tell, it is in fact the on/off brake light switch (not the pedal position sensor) that allows you to start and to shift. Draped a map over the 3rd taillight, depressed the brake just enough to light the light, and it would both start and shift into D. Near as I can tell: no brake light = no start, no shift, brake light = can start, can shift. Could be concidence with the brake pedal position sensor, but I doubt it. For sure, you can put it into gear with only the lightest touch on the brakes -- not near enough to keep the car from rolling.

But this is a dumb 0/1 switch. No rocket science there. Picture in the prior quoted thread seemed to show 2 or 3 wires coming from it. It can't very well be broken from the standpoint of shifting and not broken from the standpoint of starting.

But with software, such things may happen. I'd reboot first before I did anything else.

I searched but did not find some threads that I vaguely recall about people losing their Nav after disabling the reverse beep, and similar oddities. Anybody recall any such software glitches from reverse beep disable?

 

Jen, If you feel like advice overload then follow galaxee's advice as the primary lead. There are nothing but good ideas presented, but you may not be up to being a car mechanic quite so quick. A lot of husbands (me included) are ready to jump in but that assumes you (or your husband) are just as eager and that may not be the case. Do what makes you feel comfortable and let us know if you feel you are in over your head...or if more specifics are needed.

That said, replacing the brake switch may not be as easy as some think. It is staked (mechanically "glued") and must be adjusted correctly. This needs to be done right. I will let galaxee comment here.

The 2001 Prius has both a Normally Open contact and a Normally Closed contract on the brake switch. Both go to the Prius main computer. If the NormOpen contact were to fail and the other to work, the brake lights would work but the HV ECU would get conflicting signals. I have no idea what happens in this case but this may be the revealing case!

The Prius is designed to be fail safe, so while bothersome, the car is safe.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(JenVanVooren @ Jul 17 2007, 09:01 AM) [snapback]480253[/snapback]</div>

I agree completely with Frank. If installing a new brake light switch fixes the problem, take the shifter back.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(FL_Prius_Driver @ Jul 17 2007, 06:23 PM) [snapback]480524[/snapback]</div>

I stand corrected on my prior 0/1 comment. Even seeing 3 wires in the pictures, I would not have guessed that this switch had both NO and NC contacts. Why? Don't care, because "conflicting signals" could explain start-but-not-shift based on hardware failure, without blaming software.

But the timing is still suspect. As if maybe the combo of partial switch failure plus software mod brought this on.

Replace the brake light switch and reboot. But reboot is easier, so maybe do that first, just because it's easy not because it's smart.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(galaxee @ Jul 17 2007, 01:34 PM) [snapback]480371[/snapback]</div>

A Little SCARY....

Today, while getting on the Interstate (80/90) I was at about 60 MPH and guess what, the car decided to shift itself into neutral, so put it into Drive again and it got me up to 70 and then shifted back into Neutral again. So I ended up driving home (about 20 miles) holding the shifter in Drive the entire time. The car is now officially parked until the parts that I ordered come in and I can get the switch installed and then the shifter assembly if that is in fact needed as well. I was told by the Service manager at Toyota that this was not a safety issue, but today it became one. I wasn't afraid to drive it and have it go into neutral when backing up or before putting it from Park to Drive, but it can't be going out on me at those speeds.

A previous post made me realize that there has been a problem for a while now. When using the cruise control, tapping the brake has never turned off the cruise. I have always had to push in or let out the button to turn off the cruise and I didn't think much of it. I just thought that it was supposed to be like that with Toyotas....I realize how follish that sounds now.

I am just praying that this isn't screwing up my transmission....could it be? going from 70 to Neutral can't be easy on it, but I also know that we are talking about a different transmission than most other cars have.


So sad that it will be parked for at least a week if not longer, I am going to have to borrow a polluter from my parents and hate every second of driving it!

Hope everyone else had a better day than I did!

Take care,

Jen

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(galaxee @ Jul 17 2007, 01:34 PM) [snapback]480371[/snapback]</div>

A Little SCARY....

Today, while getting on the Interstate (80/90) I was at about 60 MPH and guess what, the car decided to shift itself into neutral, so put it into Drive again and it got me up to 70 and then shifted back into Neutral again. So I ended up driving home (about 20 miles) holding the shifter in Drive the entire time. The car is now officially parked until the parts that I ordered come in and I can get the switch installed and then the shifter assembly if that is in fact needed as well. I was told by the Service manager at Toyota that this was not a safety issue, but today it became one. I wasn't afraid to drive it and have it go into neutral when backing up or before putting it from Park to Drive, but it can't be going out on me at those speeds.

A previous post made me realize that there has been a problem for a while now. When using the cruise control, tapping the brake has never turned off the cruise. I have always had to push in or let out the button to turn off the cruise and I didn't think much of it. I just thought that it was supposed to be like that with Toyotas....I realize how follish that sounds now.

I am just praying that this isn't screwing up my transmission....could it be? going from 70 to Neutral can't be easy on it, but I also know that we are talking about a different transmission than most other cars have.


So sad that it will be parked for at least a week if not longer, I am going to have to borrow a polluter from my parents and hate every second of driving it!

Hope everyone else had a better day than I did!

Take care,

Jen


<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(galaxee @ Jul 17 2007, 01:34 PM) [snapback]480371[/snapback]</div>

Sorry about the double post! That is why you don't click twice on "Add Reply"

Have a good night,

Jen

 

Jen's used car is less than three years old.

Am I to understand that this either isn't covered under warranty or the warranty only applies to the original owner?

Either way, it kinda sucks.

After reading this thread I'd do the following:

Disconnect and reconnect the 12 v battery. Probably not it, but worth a shot and costs nothing.

Replace the brake part.

*Then* if that doesn't do it, replace the shifter. The shifter is more expensive anyway so it's worth a shot at being able to return it.

 

just looked at the wiring diagram for the brake and shifter and see a common connection thru the Hybrid ECU as well. Possible loose connections on it are another area to look at. Cruise, shifter and brake lights are all controlled thru the Hybrid ECU. Also possible bad ground or loose connectors/junction blocks. This could turn into a challenge.

 

Jen, is this car a salvage?

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(JenVanVooren @ Jul 17 2007, 08:59 PM) [snapback]480631[/snapback]</div>

Hi Jen,

It is NOT necessarily the case that this cruise control issue means that the brake switch is bad. See brick's thread on the observation that tapping the pedal does not (necessarily) disengage the cruise right away. Read the thread for details, but brick basically determined that Prii have a lot of travel in their brake pedals before the brake light (and the cruise-control disengage) kicks in. In that thread, he tells you how to adjust this.

From your most recent (scary) experience, it's hard to believe that it's the brake pedal. Like others here, I would recommend disconnecting and then reconnecting the 12V battery (or, at least, pulling the appropriate fuse) to see if that fixes things. If not, I think you're probably on the right path with the shifter (but the brake switch is probably NOT bad).

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(richard schumacher @ Jul 18 2007, 10:05 AM) [snapback]480857[/snapback]</div>

NO kidding! You have an '05 that already has over 36K miles? If no, why is the dealer charging YOU? MUST be salvage title.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(hill @ Jul 18 2007, 11:31 AM) [snapback]480948[/snapback]</div>

We've had our '07 for about 3 months (bought new with 214 miles on it). We're over 10,000 miles now. At that rate, we're in line to hit 40,000 in the first year of ownership.....and it ain't a salvage.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(hill @ Jul 18 2007, 12:31 PM) [snapback]480948[/snapback]</div>

Not a salvaged title, it was actually a local 1 owner car that was traded in for a Camry Hybrid. My husband is currently on a mission to prove that the brake light switch was not functioning properly when we purchased the car at 38,000 miles. We got the diagnostic results from another dealer on Monday that told us we would need a new brake light switch as well as the entire shifter assembly. So I have a phone call into the dealer that ran the diagnostic and I am waiting to hear back from them to see if they have the mileage readout for what the mileage was when the switch supposedly went bad.

Our plan as of right now is to disconnect the battery, though the hubby is chicken to do it, he took one look at it and said "It looks too complicated!" SO I will try to find a thread that shows how to do that. If the battery isn't the issue, we will have the switch replaced. If replacing the switch still doesn't help the shifting issue, I will get the shifter assembly replaced as well.

I am extremely disappointed more than anything. We spend 20,000.00 on a car only to drive it for a little over a month and have to put at least another 600.00 into it, if not more with labor. The sad part is, who knows if this will fix the problem? It makes me sick and very weary to ever buy a used car again, esp since we passed on the ext. warranty.

Thanks to all for the insight and being so helpful. I truly appreciate it and will let you know what the outcome is!

Enjoy the rest of your week,

-Jen

 

hi Jen,

just have him disconnect the negative terminal on the battery. it's the black wire in the back by the brake light housing. i have a picture, but i'll have to post it later.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(galaxee @ Jul 18 2007, 02:16 PM) [snapback]481039[/snapback]</div>

Thanks Galaxee, no need to post a pic, he should be able disconnect with the description provided. Thanks again!


-Jen

 

[attachmentid=9868]

here it is anyway

 

The problem was he didn't know what the box connected to the red wire was. And what would happen if he took the red off.