Feds blame hybrids for clogging HOV lanes

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(BigMoma @ Aug 14 2007, 12:02 PM) [snapback]495367[/snapback]</div>

Sadly not nailed hard enough it would appear.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Swanny1172 @ Aug 14 2007, 08:57 AM) [snapback]495318[/snapback]</div>

By the same logic FedEx Inc. are corporate morons. After all, they hire folks simply to sit in the passenger seat, so their express / overnite trucks get to the airport quicker via the carpool lanes.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(apriusfan @ Aug 14 2007, 08:01 AM) [snapback]495366[/snapback]</div>

I'll second that post. Just enforce existing laws and clear space in the carpool lanes, and also add $$$ to the kitty. Officers can't/won't? Install cameras and mail tickets.

 

Bottom line, if folks would bother to read the congressional history of HOV, they'd find that it's a multi -faceted purpose that was intended ... NOT just reducing congestion, by encouraging car pooling, but to reduce emissions. So, since the emissions prong is met, the name calling / bad name labeling serves nothing. If anyone's panties get bunched up about congressional purposes being different from what you THINK they ought to be ... why not put your anger to good use and lobby your legislator. THAT is useful, while name calling serves to simply show others that one's life feels out of control. Contact your legislator. Get control.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Swanny1172 @ Aug 14 2007, 09:28 AM) [snapback]495330[/snapback]</div>

You wanna call people morons? Do you even have HOV lanes in bumkinville ohio?


The concept of the HOV is to encourage carpooling. One of the primary benefits of carpooling is to lower the fuel consumed and emissions on a per capita basis of drivers. Having a SULEV hybrid or a motorcycle is more environmentally reasonable than having 2 people riding in a H2 or an Excursion.

New York for instance, has a provision in the clean pass which states that if the overall average rush hour speed is decreased then the clean pass system will be discontinued.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Fred S @ Aug 14 2007, 12:35 PM) [snapback]495387[/snapback]</div>

I drive in plenty of areas with HOV lanes when I have to travel for business, so the fact that we don't have them here in Northeast Ohio is irrelevant. Besides, my tax dollars are paying for them, so I have every right to comment on them.

If that is the case, then why not just say any of vehicle with fuel efficiency of 40MPG plus can drive in the HOV lane? Why shouldn't someone with a new Volkswagen TDI get to use the HOV lanes?

Simple. They shouldn't. HOV lanes are for cars with multiple passengers. Further rewarding solo-drivers doesn't help reduce traffic congestion.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(MarinJohn @ Aug 14 2007, 09:25 AM) [snapback]495383[/snapback]</div>

If someone wants to defeat the video policing scheme, it can be done without a whole lot of cost/inconvenience. You really have to put a credible enforcement effort together. The added fines should provide the motivation. In California, the HOV violation fine is something like $270. If it were increased to somewhere around $500 (or, to really get attention - $1,000) and TV stations started running stories of how violators had to sell their cars to pay the fine, the HOV lane congestion problem would be dramatically reduced.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Swanny1172 @ Aug 14 2007, 11:47 AM) [snapback]495395[/snapback]</div>

Who are you to decide what HOV lanes are for?

 

My two cents .....

My wife and I started shopping around for a hybrid for the sole reason of being able to use the HOV lanes on 95/395 in Northern Virginia. After 20+ years of carpools, adjusting to other people's schedules, waiting on people to show up, putting up with other people's driving .... well, we just wanted to be able to get to work and back with just the two of us in the car. Virginia law (extended this spring until July, 2008) allows a "hybrid exemption" to the HOV-3 requirement on 95. The law also capped the number of hybrids allowed to use the 95/395 HOV lanes to those registered and having special "clean fuel" plates by July 1, 2006.

That said, our experience with the Prius has been so positive that I suspect we will own hybrids even when (as of next April) we no longer use the HOV lanes for commuting.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(GreenGene @ Aug 14 2007, 01:31 PM) [snapback]495432[/snapback]</div>

It is interesting that you say that. I was reading an article on the Washington Post's website and ran across the following quote:

So, if people are truly buying hybrids to gain access to the HOV lanes, then maybe we should consider converting them to high-occupancy toll (HOT) lanes. HOT lanes are lanes that are open to carpools, vanpools and transit and toll-paying solo drivers. Tolls for HOT lanes are set to assure that these lanes keep flowing even when regular lanes are congested.

 

I'd rather be a moron in a Prius than a moron driving an SUV. Morons untie!

 

It is my understanding that the rationale behind HOV lanes was to reward people for reducing both traffic congestion and emissions by getting drivers to share vehicles. However, with this rationale, I can't understand why a vehicle with one driver and a bunch of babies or children can ride in the HOV lane - no drivers or vehicles were eliminated.

Here in the Phoenix area, pollution is perhaps a bigger problem than congestion, so permitting hybrids to use the HOV lanes is definitely a good idea. This has given me an incentive to borrow my wife's Prius to go downtown at rush hour instead of taking my V8 4Runner - surely a good outcome?

Maybe we should just call these lanes something else to better reflect modern usage?

As a final note, I see more cheaters than hybrids in our HOV lanes also.

Mike

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Swanny1172 @ Aug 14 2007, 12:39 PM) [snapback]495438[/snapback]</div>

Many places are already doing this.
Houston, for example, is looking to change all of their HOV lanes into Toll roads and thus allowing (nearly) anyone in that wants to pay for it.

I don't think that's the answer, though...

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(doubleg2005 @ Aug 14 2007, 02:57 PM) [snapback]495482[/snapback]</div>

I think places like Houston are coming to the conclusion that HOV lanes don't work.

Fact - HOV lanes are supposed to get people to carpool.

Fact - They have largely failed to do that.

Honestly, does anyone think that the HOV lanes have inspired enough carpools to make them as free-flowing as the highways would be just by removing the HOV lanes?

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Swanny1172 @ Aug 14 2007, 01:39 PM) [snapback]495438[/snapback]</div>

And the 95/395 HOV lanes are supposed to be converted to HOT lanes, the HOT lanes will be expanded from 2 to 3 lanes and extended further south, and HOT lanes are also to be added to the Beltway in Virginia.. Fortunately, my wife and I will be retired and long gone from the area when it happens.

There have been some heated discussions regarding the HOT lanes, and I suppose I'd have a more definite opinion of them if I was going to be faced with them. But one thing I can tell you - there are way too many Type A's with money (and gas) to burn in Northern Virginia, and the tolls may get quite high. They are talking $1.00 to $1.60 per mile during peak traffic, with no cap on the tolls. When all the construction is done, the 95/395 HOT lanes will extend 28 miles. That's $28 to almost $45 one way! YIKES!!

And yes, the hybrid exemption will end when HOV becomes HOT.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Swanny1172 @ Aug 14 2007, 02:11 PM) [snapback]495486[/snapback]</div>

HOV lanes in places like Atlanta aren't bad.
HOV lanes in Houston have largely failed to do anything mainly because of the way they were constructed. They're turning them into toll roads in hopes that someone will actually use them.

Here's how the majority of Houston's HOV works:
the HOV lane is a single lane with concrete barriers in the middle of the freeway. it is only open going into town M-F during rush hour. then it closes until evening rush hour and it is only open going out of downtown.

to get on the HOV lane, you must go (usually out of your way) to a Metro Park N Ride station. Thus, to get off the HOV, you must take the special exits (rarely where you're trying to go) and you must go to another Metro Park N Ride to get back to where you could have just as easily gone without the HOV.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Swanny1172 @ Aug 14 2007, 03:11 PM) [snapback]495486[/snapback]</div>

HOV lanes may have failed to get people to carpool in other areas - I can't speak to that. But the HOV lanes in Northern Virginia have been enormously successful in promoting and sustaining carpools and vanpools. We even have "slugs" (people looking for - literally - a free ride) and "slug lines" (lines of people waiting at various points for a ride). There's even a website describing slugs and slug lines.

All you need is a driver with a car and too few people to use HOV, and a person or two needing a ride to the same general area. Works great. I haven't slugged myself, but I've picked up slugs. Everyone benefits.

 

I've been on 95 in Atlanta during rush hour and noticed that the HOV lanes are nearly empty. I really noticed this on a business trip back in April, because a few of us flew into Atlanta from around the country and rented a minivan to use to get us to our regional office and hotel. We were able to use the HOV lanes and heading south on 95 at 5pm, we were the only vehicle.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Swanny1172 @ Aug 14 2007, 10:02 AM) [snapback]495336[/snapback]</div>

Thanks much! 'Preciate it. Your congratulations are the whole reason I joined Mensa in the first place. (Actually, I did it because my ex-wife qualified first and joined. In a self-serving, egotistical gesture worthy of Charles Emerson Winchester III, I was not to be outdone, took the test and scored higher than she. But I digress....)

No Mensan has ever claimed to exist solely to better the world. And most certainly I never made such a ridiculous claim.

Just out of curiosity, and since bettering the world would appear to the casual observer to be a priority in your life, what have YOU done to better the world?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Swanny1172 @ Aug 14 2007, 10:02 AM) [snapback]495336[/snapback]</div>

While the Prius does perform best in traffic, you state explicitly that the Prius doesn't save gas or reduce emissions at highway speeds. (You specifically said "no benefit" not "reduced benefit.") That's just not the case. There are significant savings when compared to the vehicle I was drivng before -- even at highway speeds.

Dan

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Dan-Wolfe @ Aug 14 2007, 04:02 PM) [snapback]495544[/snapback]</div>

Hey pal, I wasn't the one bragging that I was a member of Mensa. That was all you.

Mensa has three stated purposes: to identify and foster human intelligence for the benefit of humanity; to encourage research in the nature, characteristics, and uses of intelligence; and to promote stimulating intellectual and social opportunities for its members.

One would think that a member would at least have a basic understanding of the purpose of the organization which they claimed to have joined.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Dan-Wolfe @ Aug 14 2007, 04:02 PM) [snapback]495544[/snapback]</div>

What about other non-hybrid vehicles that are low in emissions and deliver 40+MPG? Using your logic, shouldn't they be allowed too?