A LITTLE GUN HISTORY!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Pinto Girl @ Aug 16 2007, 07:59 PM) [snapback]497394[/snapback]</div>

That wasn't my quote, so don't attribute it to me.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Swanny1172 @ Aug 17 2007, 09:51 AM) [snapback]497388[/snapback]</div>

Swanny, your controls are just what I feel are acceptable. You are obviously a responsible gun owner who believes that some control, at least within your own home, is needed. So why should there not be the requirement, for the benefit of everyone, to have the same controls in place for all gun owners?

And, by the way, where do you keep the ammunition? Hopefully also in the safe.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Swanny1172 @ Aug 17 2007, 09:51 AM) [snapback]497388[/snapback]</div>

Careful - this type of education could be called ingnorance here. Again, basic, simple rules for the kids.

So then, why do you have these guns, especially the revolver? Just to feel safe? And you live in a low crime area?

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Swanny1172 @ Aug 16 2007, 06:51 PM) [snapback]497388[/snapback]</div>

Swanny---oops, if Fox news can call Republicans Democrats, I guess no one is immune from a mistake now and then, are we?

-----

You're coming across as more and more paranoid, the more you disclose about your gun collection.

Will you be installing a moat next?

Guard towers?

Electric Fence?

Spotlights?

Wow. Your fear is palpable. I'm SO sorry that you have to live like that, every day of your life. I was homeless, living on the streets and in my car, and I *never* carried a weapon.

Meanwhile, you're in a nice house in a good neighborhood, armed to the teeth? What gives?

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Pinto Girl @ Aug 16 2007, 08:06 PM) [snapback]497404[/snapback]</div>

Paranoid?

Nope, just responsible. I don't want my stuff stolen, simple enough? I live in a new neighborhood where houses are still being built. There are construction workers around all the time, and there have been houses broken into during the day. My wife and I both work, so nobody is at home during the day. An alarm is perfectly rational.

Armed to the teeth?

You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about? Other than the .38 I mentioned above, I have never said a word about how many firearms I own.

Fear?

Nope, just a realization that things don't always go as planned and that I can and will protect my family should the s**t ever really hit the fan. We have a gasoline generator, canned goods and about 20 gallons of water stored in case of a natural disaster. Do you want to make fun of me for that?

 

Only for the guns. Survival gear is just plain smart.


And...ummm...I'm going to throw some red meat into the discussion by saying that...

...if there ever was ever a MAJOR natural disaster, well...I...ummmmm...will say...hesitantly...and under great duress...that...well, yes...I might regret not...having...a......................gun.

I'm trying to be honest and not just say whatever supports my point.

In San Francisco in the earthquake of '89, the thin veneer of civilization was punctured, and some folks began to take advantage of the situation...

I was really, really scared that night.

REALLY scared.

Terribly, awfully, horrifyingly scared.

But, for now, my survival kit will still not include a weapon.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(AussieOwner @ Aug 16 2007, 08:05 PM) [snapback]497403[/snapback]</div>

I bought that gun years ago when my wife and I were in grad school and lived in a typically seedy off-campus neighborhood. Crime was pretty high and we were burglarized a few times. Once, while we were watching TV upstairs, someone managed to pry one of the windows open in the kitchen and was trying to climb in the window. My wife went downstairs for a drink, turned on the lights and scrared him away. Then and there, we decided that we needed a gun. We have had it ever since and even though I live in a low crime area now, I have no intention of ever being unarmed again.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(airportkid @ Aug 15 2007, 09:45 PM) [snapback]496640[/snapback]</div>

You didn't read my post.

I'll say it again. If anyone, repeat, ANYONE, breaks into my home while I am here.

THEY WILL GET SHOT.

I don't care WHO it is. I will shoot at them.

I have the right to defend myself and my family inside my home from any threat.

And I call someone breaking my door down

A THREAT.

Get it now?

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Pinto Girl @ Aug 16 2007, 08:26 PM) [snapback]497412[/snapback]</div>

Funny, but where I live, I am not so scared of robbers and looters during a natural disaster as I am of being without food and water. I am a hunter and would not have any problems putting red meat on the table if things really went bad. That said, I would also remain much more comfortable knowing that I could defend my home if the "have nots" decided to attack the "haves".

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(AussieOwner @ Aug 16 2007, 05:55 PM) [snapback]497355[/snapback]</div>

You said so yourself that the way you teach your kids about guns is "Guns are bad, they kill, stay away from them, if you see a gun, run!"

This is ignorance to the highest degree.

Either you don't discuss it at all with your kids, let them make up their own mind (as my father did with me) OR teach them about guns by being a responsible parent and SHOW them by teaching them yourself. Go to the range and teach them to shoot.

Teach SAFETY, which starts and ends with YOU. No safety lock or any other device means anything if YOU don't practice safe gun handling. I have already completed a one day course on handgun safety, and plan to take another to learn more specifics on home gun safety. This is the organization I take classes from, I recommend them to all who are interested. Their gun safety class is offered free, by the way:

http://www.firearmsacademy.com/

I am all for control of firearms too. Background checks are very important.

However I am against just telling a kid that guns are only for killing people and that makes them bad.

There are bad people. Guns are not bad until a bad person uses one to inflict harm on another person without due cause.

It's like saying forks are bad because they make you fat.

No, forks are not bad, they do not make you fat, however you can use them to make you fat.

It's all how guns are used. And responsible gun owners own them for a hobby (shooting at the range, which is pretty fun) and also for self defense.

Self defense.

Personally I do not carry a gun on my person, but I do have one at home. It is for home defense. I pray I will never have to use it against anyone ever. BUT if I am ever placed in a situation where I feel my life or that of my wife is ever threatened (and I call someone breaking into my home a threat to my life)

I WILL USE IT.

Hope this helps.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(DaveLeePrius @ Aug 16 2007, 07:28 PM) [snapback]497415[/snapback]</div>

Do you have specific guidelines as to what qualifies as a "break in?"

*a sound against the wall
*your daughter's lover throwing a stone at her window to wake her, so he might serenade her from the street
*kids pranking your son by TP'ing your house?
*a broken window
*a broken window followed by footsteps and voices
*actually seeing someone inside your home, going through your stuff?

I guess I'm feeling that there are lots of instances between "a sound against the wall" and "seeing someone inside your home, going through your stuff." Curious how you'll draw the line and decide when to shoot and when not to.

Will you wait, and risk your own safety...or will you shoot too soon, and risk the other person's? If I had to choose one of the two, I'd probably go with the latter. It's human nature.

This is a big, BIG decision. Do you have specific training for this situation? Do you go through mock "intruder drills" so you can practice your skills at home on a regular basis? Does someone regularly check your currency, to see if you're really qualified to defend yourself without making a mistake?

I'm just curious how you're preparing yourself to make such a big and important decision...and, most likely, when you're least expecting it.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Tyrin @ Aug 16 2007, 06:20 PM) [snapback]497363[/snapback]</div>

No, you wrote that, not me. And again, guns are not bad. People are bad. It's like saying sex is bad, because it can be rape. But no, rape happens when a bad person does that. Murder without just cause happens when a bad person does that.

A gun can save your life or that of your family if used in self defense. You do know about the concept of self defense, right?

I am glad you wrote "sex is definitely NOT bad, but you have to understand the consequences" because you can say the same thing about guns. A gun is not bad inherent unto itself, a gun is an assembled tool used to launch a bullet. However, to use a gun against another human being carries consequences, which need to be understood well.

Guns don't kill people, people kill people. It's a cliche' but also true.

If we outlawed guns, only outlaws would have guns. Is also true.

I guess you're against knives too? They can also be used to kill people.

How about cars? They can also be used to kill people.

How about drugs? They can also be used to kill people.

Get my point?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Pinto Girl @ Aug 16 2007, 07:40 PM) [snapback]497426[/snapback]</div>

No, I have had an attempted break in before, I know what an attempted break in is. It's the most terrifying experience you'll ever have, trust me.

I refuse to be a victim of ANYONE's criminal behavior. If someone wants to try to break my door down, go ahead. They'll find out the consequences.

Yes it is a big decision. I decide I want to live and not be a victim of a criminal.

There are good people in this world and there are bad people. I am a good person. I have never harmed another person ever and I never will. However, I also refuse to allow myself or my family to be harmed by another person.

Clearly as a woman, if you were confronted by a rapist, you wouldn't simply lie down and let him rape you without a good fight, right? I hope you agree!

It is a choice we in this country have the right to make. And I am adament that that choice never be taken away by anyone, ever.

I respect your choice to not carry or own a gun. That's your right. You also absolutely have the right to your opinions, as do I.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(DaveLeePrius @ Aug 16 2007, 07:37 PM) [snapback]497423[/snapback]</div>

To use WiiPrii's analogy:

Either you don't discuss sex at all with your kids, let them make up their own mind, OR you teach them about sex by being a responsible parent and SHOW them by teaching them yourself.

Note, I do not agree with this analogy. However, I find both examples equally ludicrous. Why the hell would anyone NOT talk to their kids about guns? You're saying you'd rather have the half of the population that DOESN'T own handguns let their kids make up their own mind by experimenting? Your father just let you loose on the world with absolutely NO information about guns? That's exactly how the accidents happen...

You don't honestly believe that these millions of people are going to train their kids in gun use and safety, do you? They're not going to become gun owners any more than some of you are going to give up your guns. Teaching that guns are dangerous and can cause death (and this is certainly not debatable) is the only good idea for those of us who want our children to avoid them at all costs.

No, WiiPrii said that. Please don't assume every post is directed specifically to you. It's very ego-centric. I even quoted his statement, so there should have been no confusion.

Yes. Self defense is the idea that I should protect myself against an immediate threat. Got it. There are plenty of ways to do that without a firearm. And plenty of evidence that having a firearm can actually escalate or turn a situation against you and more violent.

I get it. You think there's absolutely no difference between a gun and all these other tools. Let's see:

Drugs: save lives, balance mood, or let you have a good time (not condoning)
Cars: transport people and goods around, the backbone of our economy
Knives: cut up food, open packages, even save lives (surgery)
Guns: hunt, kill people

This is why I made the exception for hunting rifles before. It's the ONLY use of a firearm that doesn't involve the injury or death of a human. The tool is design to kill. That is it's primary function. No other tool on your list does that.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Tyrin @ Aug 16 2007, 09:13 PM) [snapback]497448[/snapback]</div>

All of the things you mentioned can kill you. Every day, people die by overdosing on drugs, crashing cars and getting stabbed. In fact, I just saw a story on FoxNews about an an 18-year-old who stabbed his cheerleader girlfriend to death a day after her 16th birthday, then slit his own throat. No gun involved, but two young people dead.

Full story: http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,293525,00.html

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Swanny1172 @ Aug 16 2007, 08:23 PM) [snapback]497456[/snapback]</div>

You are not disagreeing with me. In order to do that, you would have to state that these things were DESIGNED to kill, as a gun is. That is all I stated. No other tool on that list is designed specifically to kill.

Let's look at it another way:

Ban drugs:
1. people die because the medication isn't there to cure them
2. more violence as psychologically disturbed people have fewer treatments

Ban cars/trucks:
1. the economy comes to a screeching halt. Massive hunger, unemployment, etc.

Ban knives:
1. Meals must be prepared with food-processor type blades which are safe but not good for all scenarios. Steakhouses close.

Ban guns:
1. I can't shoot someone.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Tyrin @ Aug 16 2007, 09:26 PM) [snapback]497458[/snapback]</div>

Knives most certainly were designed to kill. During the Stone Age, knives were made of flint and were specifically designed for hunting and killing wild game.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Swanny1172 @ Aug 16 2007, 08:30 PM) [snapback]497463[/snapback]</div>

Thank you for agreeing with me. As I stated before, killing game is a legitimate use of both guns and knives (although not really "necessary" in our modern society).

 

Around and around we go, where we will stop no one knows.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Tyrin @ Aug 16 2007, 09:13 PM) [snapback]497448[/snapback]</div>

Let's not forget 9/11. 4 planes were hi-jacked with nothing more than some fancy razor blades. Anything can be used as a weapon. People trained in martial arts can kill with their bare hands. The problem is not the method it is the people.

Degrees of badness? Sliding scales? Yes, Pinto Girl there are degrees, but I am not worried about a college kid cheating on a test or the person that returns Ohio cans in Michigan for the deposit (Swanny knows what I'm talking about ). I personally have never broken in to anyones home. I will never break in to anyones home. So I therefore am not in risk of being shot for breaking in to someones home! Just don't do bad things.

I would characterize someone breaking into my home with a weapon of any kind, or carjacking, or mugging someone, bad! If you want to say that this person is still good inside and they are only a 4 on your sliding scale of badness and they can be redeemed with touchy feely outreach programs then that is fine. Maybe you are right, but I hope you get them with your rehabilitation plan before he breaks in to my house.

This has been fun and I enjoyed reading ALL of your ideas and thoughts/feelings but I must now go clean my gun.

 

The ancient more decorative chalcedony knives were only used for wall hangings, as stated in some of my older copies of Paleolithic Living.

My Wusthofs are my only conceiveable weapons and they will do fine in an emergency if needed.

Just teasing, this is a fun thread to peruse, no chance of heated discussion when it comes to guns in America.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Tyrin @ Aug 16 2007, 09:40 PM) [snapback]497469[/snapback]</div>

I don't really see where I am agreeing with you. You said the none of the things you listed were designed for killing and I stated that knives were. Before people started killing each other with guns, they used bows and arrows, knives, and spears. Do you really expect us to believe that nobody was killed before the advent of the gun? I guess you haven't seen 300.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Swanny1172 @ Aug 16 2007, 08:48 PM) [snapback]497475[/snapback]</div>

What would be nice is if you read posts for a change

I said the gun was designed solely for killing (humans is implied, since that's what the whole point of the thread is). The others were designed for other uses. The possible exception/overlap is the knife, but you said it was designed to kill game, not humans.

Are you basing your worldview on 300? Do you realize how incredibly unrealistic that movie is?