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Installs & Reviews of Goodyear Assurance TripleTred's

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Accessories & Modifications' started by amped, Nov 8, 2004.

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  1. amped

    amped Senior Member

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    I've done business with the same local tire dealer for 15 years. They carry Goodyear, Michelin, Bridgestone, Yokohama and a few other lines. They always beat TireRack and Costco prices and give generous trade-in credit.

    After talking with both TireRack and my dealer, I was steered (pun intended) toward the TripleTred. It's a new design that debuted last February and, according to them, represents a generational improvement over the Michelin HydroEdge with a quieter ride and better snow performance.

    I've only driven ~100 miles on dry asphalt in gusting cross-winds, so am no authority. I can say they are very smooth and quiet, better than expected for an 80,000 mile tire. However, although the tire is HR rated, the sidewall has some flex that allows a bit of motion in crosswinds. Not alarming at all, much better than the Integrity's, and I tested in the Columbia River Gorge with winds 25 gusting 45. They're good, but if you want ultimate crosswind resistance, then I recommend the tire I used on my last '04, the Bridgestone Potenza RE-950 in 195/60-15 size.

    The indicated fuel consumption displayed hasn't changed with the TT's, so there's hope that it won't be impacted much. The Potenzas took a 20% toll on economy, but wow did they handle anything but moderate snow.

    Here's a link to the TireRack survey of similar tires. You can see that the TT is rated slightly higher than the HydroEdge, although with a much smaller sample size.

    TireRack Survey

    I think either would be fine. The dealer was pretty excited about the TT's, though, and said customer complaints are nearly non-existent compared to the HydroEdge that gets some noise and balance complaints.

    The TT is about $8 per tire less than the HE, not a factor for me. What became the deal clincher is the Goodyear $50 rebate that started today and runs until 11/27.

    Goodyear $50 Rebate

    So, net cost with trade-in, including free road hazard replacement (not repair) certificates, mount & balance, free lifetime rotation and balance, blah-blah, was $184 at America's Tire Company. Not bad, not bad at all, and now I'm (almost) looking forward to rainy and snowy days.
     
    #1 amped, Nov 8, 2004
  2. ryogajyc

    ryogajyc Active Member

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    Re: Installed Goodyear Assurance TripleTred's Today

    Are you using the stock rims? I've not purchased tires before, so my understanding of fit and requirements is rather limited. From what I gather on TireRack, the 195/60-15 TTs are 6.0" tires, but they can fit on rims 5.5-7" which include the 5.5" stock rims for the 2004 Prius.

    Is it safe/ok to do this? Are there any disadvantages (and possibly advantages) to using tires where the measured rim width does not match? What tire pressure are you running them at?

    Sorry for pestering you with questions, but it seems like the TTs are an excellent choice for the Prius. I'm a bit wary that they don't make a 185/65-15 version (hopefully they will soon). In case they never do, I would like to get an idea of what it takes to get a set of TTs on my car eventually. Thanks.
     
    #2 ryogajyc, Nov 8, 2004
  3. john1701a

    john1701a Prius Guru

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    Re: Installed Goodyear Assurance TripleTred's Today

    We really, really need to define what "snow performance" means.

    I can quickly recite three very difference situations on snow...

    - ACCELERATING

    - TURNING

    - STOPPING

    The TripleTred appear as though they'd score the highest in ACCELERATION, due to having the largest amount of angled tread.

    The HydroEdge appear as though they'd score the highest in TURNING, due to having the 2 deep, wide, continuous linear treads.

    As for STOPPING, that's anyone's guess. Neither appears to have an obvious advantage.
     
    #3 john1701a, Nov 8, 2004
  4. amped

    amped Senior Member

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    Re: Installed Goodyear Assurance TripleTred's Today

    ryo, stock rim width is 6", a perfect match for the 195/60's and the rim used for TireRack data. I'm running 38ff/35rr on stock rims, but will be upping pressures to improve handling. I might have to live with the limitations and compromises of a non-performance rated tire, but hope to find the sweet spot. I have a lot of headroom, max inflation pressure is 44 psi.

    John, the TireRack snow performance definition is effectively the same as yours. From their site:

    Snow Traction
    Rates snow traction when accelerating, braking and cornering.

    No numbers given, but the sales rep runs the TT's on his BMW 325i as Winter snow tires as said they do almost as well as dedicated snows. He said customer feedback for snow performance runs well ahead of HydroEdge feedback as shown in the data. He said the volcanic ash and glass fibers embedded in the center really works with snow and even ice traction.

    Hmm, maybe sell Mt. St. Helen's ash to Michelin now

    Goodyear Assurance Flash Site
     
    #4 amped, Nov 8, 2004
  5. daniel

    daniel Cat Lovers Against the Bomb

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    I presume that the Tire Rack survey linked above gives averages of user responses, not test results. In which case, the difference between the TT and the HE seems insignificant. Comments?
     
    #5 daniel, Nov 9, 2004
  6. orlans108

    orlans108 Junior Member

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    Re: Installed Goodyear Assurance TripleTred's Today

    I too am thinking seriously about the TripleTred .... The Rev's on the TripleTred 195/60/15 is 833 .... 185/65/15 (stock) is 824. My chart said that when going 60mph the TripleTred will read 59.4. Does this matter at all?

    Also will the wider size of the TripleTred impact MPG more than say going with the Hydroedge 185/65/15?

    What do you think about changing the wheels while changing the tires. Does anyone know the weight of a stock Prius rim?

    Thanks
    Daniel
     
    #6 orlans108, Nov 11, 2004
  7. amped

    amped Senior Member

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    Re: Installed Goodyear Assurance TripleTred's Today

    daniel, like I wrote above, I think either would be fine and a great improvement over the Integrity's that have such a soft sidewall that I consider them borderline unsafe in emergency transitions.

    orlans, I can't imagine that small of a difference having an effect on any of the Prius systems or driving dynamics. Speedo and odometer will be very slightly off, but that's all that comes to mind.

    Impossible to say whether mileage would change when comparing a wider TripleTred to a narrower HydroEdge. But when comparing the same type, I'd guess the wider tire could possibly get lower economy due to a wider contact patch probably having higher rolling resistance and greater tire weight.

    I don't know the weight of a stock Prius rim, but Tire Rack most likely does. I think it would be beneficial to change to a lighter but no larger wheel to return closer to stock wheel/tire weight. The TripleTred in 195/60 size is around six pounds heavier than the stock Integrity. The HydroEdge is three pounds heavier. That's quite a bit for either, although you'd have to be sensitive to notice the slower acceleration partially offset by the lower effective final drive ratio. If I were keeping the car, I might investigate a lighter forged wheel, but I like the stock wheel looks with the heavy plastic trim ring removed.

    Oh, I went straight up to 44ff/42rr now. The tracking improved further, and the car feels much more stable in high speed transitions in my imaginary slalom course. Tracking is completely acceptable now. I think the increased pressure helped even more than the "stability" alignment with toe-in. Even at 44 psi, the max pressure, ride is still very good, the tire is nearly silent, and no unusual chassis resonances were excited. There is a slight impact jolt over the biggest pavement breaks, but nothing objectionable at all. I'm still waiting for a good downpour to test wet grip (Oregon...soon) and am pumped about everything I've read and heard about the excellent snow and ice performance. I saw no difference in fuel economy between the Integrity's and the oversized TripleTreds. Both show 41.5 mpg at 70 mph into a stiff, gusting head/crosswind. So far, so good, and when the car is more broken in and the brakes fully bedded, I'll try emergency braking and ABS engagement.
     
    #7 amped, Nov 12, 2004
  8. daniel

    daniel Cat Lovers Against the Bomb

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    Orlans, for what it's worth, my odometer, with the OEM tires at 42/40, reads about 1% off. I figure that's probably within specs.

    Amped, thanks for the additional thoughts.

    I've decided to get the HydroEdge tires. I'll have to wait a week though, because the tire store had to special-order them. Maybe a different store would have them in stock, but I've dealt with this place for 25 years and I'm happy with them.
     
    #8 daniel, Nov 12, 2004
  9. rflagg

    rflagg Member

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    Question from a non-car guy who is now a car guy because of this wonderful vehicle:

    Why are a good deal of you getting new tires? Are your current tires already worn down that bad, or are you just looking for good winter tires?

    On an aside, braking (except hard) on snow/ice on this car is irrelevant in regards to tires because of regen. braking, right?

    -m.
     
    #9 rflagg, Nov 12, 2004
  10. jfschultz

    jfschultz Active Member

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    As I indicated in the "Replaced the Tires - from hydroplane to HyrdoEdge" thread (http://priuschat.com/forums/replaced-the-tires-vt5152.html), my wife and I encountered a scary situation that destroyed our confidence in the safety of OEM tires in wet weather at highway speed.

    The tires only had about 5000 miles and lots of wear left. But the Goodyear Integrity are their bottom of the line. The Michelin HydroEdge and the Goodyear TripleTread are the top of the line all season tires.
     
    #10 jfschultz, Nov 12, 2004
  11. bruceha_2000

    bruceha_2000 Senior Member

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    I'm not sure that would be a true statement. The friction brakes slow the tire rotation by friction on the drum/disc. Regen slows it back in the electic motor/planetary gears (I think). The issue of braking on snow and ice is what kind of grip the tire has on the snow, not the method used to slow rotation. Also, I think VSC (if applicable) relies at least some on the friction brakes on all 4 wheels. Unless they are studded, tires generally don't grip ice much at all.
     
    #11 bruceha_2000, Nov 12, 2004
  12. rflagg

    rflagg Member

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    Ok, thanks to both answers :)

    With about 18k on my tires, I wasn't sure if I was the only crazy one not getting new tires or not. :)

    -m.
     
    #12 rflagg, Nov 12, 2004
  13. bruceha_2000

    bruceha_2000 Senior Member

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    I'm still agonizing over the winter tire thing. :) In another thread it was mentioned that john1701 would have kept his OEMs a second winter (in MN) had he not blown one. And another person posted they had recently gone up into the mountains and the car handled the snow fine with the OEMs. What to do, what to do!?!?!?
     
    #13 bruceha_2000, Nov 12, 2004
  14. orlans108

    orlans108 Junior Member

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    Re: Installed Goodyear Assurance TripleTred's Today

    Daniel -- Any reason you chose the HydroEdge over the TripleTred? Are you running the PSI 42/40 for better handling? Does that in any way impact how the tire wears? Is it because you're running it over specs that the odometer reads 1% off?

    Amped -- Thanks for your reports on the TripleTred. I'm leaning towards it because of it's excellent reviews and it may be better over the HydroEdge in snow and as far as noise is concerned. The Euro/Japan Prius comes with stock 195/55/16 tires, so I guess the extra widths impact on MPG is not of concern there (handling is). The special on the TripleTred expires on 11/27 so keep your reports coming .... I need to decide and order before then.
    Also are you continuing to experiment with PSI, and what are the results?
     
    #14 orlans108, Nov 12, 2004
  15. amped

    amped Senior Member

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    Re: Installed Goodyear Assurance TripleTred's Today

    I'm still experimenting with pressures. Today it's 44ff/44rr, or +2rr. I'm trying to keep the rear planted at all times during fast transitions. I don't drive that way, but want the most predictable chassis response if I get into a defensive evasive maneuver situation. Hey, I'm in Oregon, it seems to be a weekly occurrence!

    If it feels better balanced at 44psi all around, I'll start dropping in 1psi increments until it starts feeling "loose" again and consider that the sweet spot for the TripleTreds and my needs.
     
    #15 amped, Nov 12, 2004
  16. jfschultz

    jfschultz Active Member

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    Re: Installed Goodyear Assurance TripleTred's Today

    Speaking for myself, I wanted to go with the size Toyota specified. The HydroEdge is available in the 185-65-15 size and the TripleTres is not.
     
    #16 jfschultz, Nov 12, 2004
  17. ryogajyc

    ryogajyc Active Member

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    Re: Installed Goodyear Assurance TripleTred's Today

    I noticed that the TripleTreds in 195/60-15 have a higher (1190 lbs.) max load compared to the OEM 185/65-15 Integritys (1168 lbs.). Does this increase the max load of the Prius? Or is there some other component besides the tire that is the limiting factor in the max load of Prius?

    I've also sent an e-mail to Goodyear asking if they will be making the TTs in 185/65-15. It would be nice to be able to have more options without changing the tire size from the OEM. However, if it is possible to increase the max load of the Prius, that may be a reason for me change tire sizes.
     
    #17 ryogajyc, Nov 12, 2004
  18. amped

    amped Senior Member

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    Re: Installed Goodyear Assurance TripleTred's Today

    I don't think the GVWR of 3795 lbs. would change. The Integrity's are designed to have a safety reserve above that at factory recommended pressures. The TripleTreds would have a higher safety reserve at those pressures.

    The Integrity's are load range 86 and at factory pressures of 35ff/33rr are rated 1135/1058 lbs. respectively. The TT's are load range 87 and at the same pressures are rated 1157/1124. So you can see that either is conservatively rated. Also, both increase their load ratings about 20 lbs. for each 1psi increase in pressure, so at the pressures I'm running there is ample reserve.

    I'm thinking the GVWR is determined in part by tires, but more so by springs. Hopefully an engineering type can add to this. I only stayed at a Holiday Inn Express last night.
     
    #18 amped, Nov 12, 2004
  19. flareak

    flareak Fleet Captain

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    Will the 195/65 Fit on the Prius' stock rims?
    What is advantageous of choosing 195/60 over the 195/65 besides weight difference?

    What is the weight of the Prius' stock rims?
     
    #19 flareak, Nov 12, 2004
  20. daniel

    daniel Cat Lovers Against the Bomb

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    Orlans: I mainly chose the HE because that was the tire John chose, and he is such a details kind of guy that I figured there were good reasons. On the irrational side, I somehow have a better feeling about Michelin than Goodyear.

    I am inclined to feel that there is not really a lot of difference between the two. Each is the top-of-the-line all-season tire from a top tire maker. And the Tire-Rack survey appears to be just that: a survey, not test results, so that I doubt there is a significant difference in the results. Given that, I didn't want to continue agonizing about an insignificant decision.

    On the odometer, I've lost my notes and cannot remember if the odo was high or low. (I'll do the check again next week when I drive to South Dakota). But I think the error is within specs and not related to tire pressure.

    Rflagg: I am switching tires because I want maximum safety. The OEM tires were perfectly adequate last winter. But I expect the HE to be better, and I'm willing to pay any reasonable amount for increased safety. And as mentioned above, handling and stopping depend on tire grip, not on whether the friction brakes or MG2 do the stopping. Hydroplaning in rain and emergency cornering are also issues for overall safety.

    FWIW they quoted me $503 for all 4 tires, installed, balanced, valve stems, lifetime road hazzard warranty. I didn't shop around because I trust this store. I don't price-shop where safety is concerned. They'll give me something for my old tires, which only have about 6,000 miles on them. They won't give me much, but I'll have the comfort of knowing the old tires will end up on a car, and not in the landfill.
     
    #20 daniel, Nov 13, 2004
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